Junker and dave
Discussion
Likely not but the UKs government is now in a weakened position within the EU. However as the government is due for a general election in ’15 and the opposition have consistently been polling ahead for a long time now it’s actually unlikely to be a long lived issue.
…unless UKIP can translate votes into seats but the UKs electoral system makes this very unlikely.
…unless UKIP can translate votes into seats but the UKs electoral system makes this very unlikely.
speedy_thrills said:
Likely not but the UKs government is now in a weakened position within the EU. However as the government is due for a general election in ’15 and the opposition have consistently been polling ahead for a long time now it’s actually unlikely to be a long lived issue.
…unless UKIP can translate votes into seats but the UKs electoral system makes this very unlikely.
I suspect the issue will be longer term in that Junkers will move the EU in the direction of ever closer union which as the great British public are becoming more aware of just how much the EU is involved in running the country might just stir up a hornets nest. Hence Daves expressin that we have moved closer to the exit door.…unless UKIP can translate votes into seats but the UKs electoral system makes this very unlikely.
Whilst all three major parties currently express support for the UK being in the EU, At some point all of the parties are going to have to say whether they support a policy of actually signing over sovereignty lock stock and barrel to the EU or not. That day has just got closer with Junkers appointment.
That's how I interpret it anyway.
The UK is the only country in the EU that does not have any commitment to being in the euro, which means we are not beholden to their little scheme and there was always going to be fireworks when this starts playing out in reality. The fact that Dave's continued to bang the drum so long after Merkel stopped flip-flopping over Juncker means someone in Whitehall thinks there's political capital to be made from setting off as many fireworks as possible.
We've got a long way to go before we see if this strategy works. Juncker's a heavy drinking federalist who oversaw the creation of the biggest tax haven in Europe, add to that whatever changes are going to happen in the EU are likely to be unpopular regardless of whether they're right or wrong. This means there's a lot for the press to get stuck in to on both the left and right of the spectrum, especially once the Germans realize that federalism = redistribution and devaluation of the euro for southern countries to survive.
If Juncker gets crucified by the press Cameron wins a big 'I told you so' moment, if Juncker turns out to be the savior beloved of all across the EU then Cameron loses. Not such a bad bet to make all in all. There's also the question of creating leverage for future negotiations by claiming we didn't get our way with Juncker.
We've got a long way to go before we see if this strategy works. Juncker's a heavy drinking federalist who oversaw the creation of the biggest tax haven in Europe, add to that whatever changes are going to happen in the EU are likely to be unpopular regardless of whether they're right or wrong. This means there's a lot for the press to get stuck in to on both the left and right of the spectrum, especially once the Germans realize that federalism = redistribution and devaluation of the euro for southern countries to survive.
If Juncker gets crucified by the press Cameron wins a big 'I told you so' moment, if Juncker turns out to be the savior beloved of all across the EU then Cameron loses. Not such a bad bet to make all in all. There's also the question of creating leverage for future negotiations by claiming we didn't get our way with Juncker.
steveatesh said:
Whilst all three major parties currently express support for the UK being in the EU, At some point all of the parties are going to have to say whether they support a policy of actually signing over sovereignty lock stock and barrel to the EU or not.
That is not what will happen.There may be closer integration but it will only be in the Eurozone and it is frankly necessary to make the Euro work properly. However, this is subject to the various European electorates agreeing to go along with this and recent election results in France, Greece etc suggest that this is certainly not a foregone conclusion.
What Juncker's appointment means is a likely acceleration to a 2-speed Europe.
Dave is not serious about an EU exit - he is posturing to keep the Ukippers and Europhobes in his own party happy - if he were to threaten exit he would lose the business vote overnight, along with much of the sensible end of his own party.
Bluebarge said:
steveatesh said:
Whilst all three major parties currently express support for the UK being in the EU, At some point all of the parties are going to have to say whether they support a policy of actually signing over sovereignty lock stock and barrel to the EU or not.
That is not what will happen.There may be closer integration but it will only be in the Eurozone and it is frankly necessary to make the Euro work properly. However, this is subject to the various European electorates agreeing to go along with this and recent election results in France, Greece etc suggest that this is certainly not a foregone conclusion.
What Juncker's appointment means is a likely acceleration to a 2-speed Europe.
Dave is not serious about an EU exit - he is posturing to keep the Ukippers and Europhobes in his own party happy - if he were to threaten exit he would lose the business vote overnight, along with much of the sensible end of his own party.
(random pic from google)
Yes, VAT return is such a burden.
Total nightmare. That line 2, let alone lines 8 and 9, look really menacing and scary like. For funzies, I've just run my VAT report (usually done by accountant four times a YEAR (the burden is almost unbearable)), and all columns are filled by software. Took grand total of 10 seconds.
Yes that pesky working time directive, preventing employers from forcing lazy HGV drivers or pilots to work over 48 hrs a week. Really, really bad piece of legislation.
speedyman said:
What exactly do you have to do extra running a business because of the eu?
speedyman
Not only is absolutely nothing extra needed in our case, in fact nothing at all is required. That's because the EU specifically bans our business from providing our services to residents of other member states. We can have clients almost anywhere, but if they live have the nerve to move from Dover to Calais that's the end of our relationship with them.speedyman
It's fine though if they move to Geneva, or even Bangkok.
Yet another one of the huge advantages to UK exporters from our expensive EU membership.
league67 said:
(random pic from google)
Yes, VAT return is such a burden.
Total nightmare. That line 2, let alone lines 8 and 9, look really menacing and scary like. For funzies, I've just run my VAT report (usually done by accountant four times a YEAR (the burden is almost unbearable)), and all columns are filled by software. Took grand total of 10 seconds.
Yes that pesky working time directive, preventing employers from forcing lazy HGV drivers or pilots to work over 48 hrs a week. Really, really bad piece of legislation.
Andy Zarse said:
Not only is absolutely nothing extra needed in our case, in fact nothing at all is required. That's because the EU specifically bans our business from providing our services to residents of other member states. We can have clients almost anywhere, but if they live have the nerve to move from Dover to Calais that's the end of our relationship with them.
It's fine though if they move to Geneva, or even Bangkok.
Yet another one of the huge advantages to UK exporters from our expensive EU membership.
I'm intrigued, what business services are those?It's fine though if they move to Geneva, or even Bangkok.
Yet another one of the huge advantages to UK exporters from our expensive EU membership.
Guam said:
I am a business, i deal worldwide I vote out. 
Who exactly are these business votes? A few Dozen Multis playing transfer pricing games for tax advantages that's who. The vast majority of SME's are fed up with the nonsense that is the EU imho (except for those who get grants for their business operations from EU departments).
But transfer pricing is nothing to do with EU membership so if those companies are playing transfer pricing games then they can do that inside or outside the EU. Who exactly are these business votes? A few Dozen Multis playing transfer pricing games for tax advantages that's who. The vast majority of SME's are fed up with the nonsense that is the EU imho (except for those who get grants for their business operations from EU departments).
Guam said:
Try filing your VAT return when you have none EU business in your turnover and then tell me there is no extra work involved (one small illustration of the issues).
Other issues on regulations have been posted before on other threads (working hours directives etc).
Get decent accounts package... I think you would find the VAT return if we left the EU to be very similar to what it is now.Other issues on regulations have been posted before on other threads (working hours directives etc).
mondeoman said:
league67 said:
(random pic from google)
Yes, VAT return is such a burden.
Total nightmare. That line 2, let alone lines 8 and 9, look really menacing and scary like. For funzies, I've just run my VAT report (usually done by accountant four times a YEAR (the burden is almost unbearable)), and all columns are filled by software. Took grand total of 10 seconds.
Yes that pesky working time directive, preventing employers from forcing lazy HGV drivers or pilots to work over 48 hrs a week. Really, really bad piece of legislation.
(That was the precise point of choosing that particular image, y'know for the business that has no interaction with EU).
Yes, it was me that was missing the fact.
If your VAT return takes longer than 15 minutes a year (including submission), you need new accountant. Someone with IQ higher than their body temperature.
Guam said:
These fields were arbitrarily removed when they moved to electronic returns and would no longer accept manual ones.
So is this an issue caused by the EU or by UK HMRC - is the submission form standard across the EU or is this a UK specific design.Not knocking the impact of the EU on small businesses but lots of "EU" regulations that people refer to that cause the most problems actually seem to be caused by the UK implementation of them.
One thing to consider in the "business burden" argument is that I think we have all forgotten how difficult it was to ship products internationally within the EU - if we left, there is no certainty that we would be able to negotiate a Free Trade agreement and so we would be back to import tariffs and customs delays within the current EU - I recall having to stop at each border and obtain customs stamps as we were carrying "commercial goods" - electronics spares - in the 1980's, whereas now we just drive straight through
LOL.
Now giving advice to people who should they ignore? Delusion of grandeur is entertaining.
Clearly, when I type that accountants are submitting VAT Returns 'four times a YEAR', that clearly means once a year and not quarterly. I mean, obviously.
If you can't get something as simple as that right, I can see why VAT Returns are a mystery.
Edit to add; No fields were removed or changed or added when moving from paper to electronic submission. None at all. The form was replicated one screen (with few fields being calculated 'live').
Now giving advice to people who should they ignore? Delusion of grandeur is entertaining.
Clearly, when I type that accountants are submitting VAT Returns 'four times a YEAR', that clearly means once a year and not quarterly. I mean, obviously.
If you can't get something as simple as that right, I can see why VAT Returns are a mystery.
Edit to add; No fields were removed or changed or added when moving from paper to electronic submission. None at all. The form was replicated one screen (with few fields being calculated 'live').
Edited by league67 on Monday 30th June 13:17
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