Cameron - crackdown on booze abuse

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

Of course it is the same, it is exactly the same.

Even if I was, it is precisely NONE of your business. Stop telling people how to live their lives based on your value system.

Yet it's not the same , not even close !

[Ozzie Osmond]

Derek Smith said:

The idea was to go round to pubs and clubs and report for any offences seen. Odd though it sounds it had the support of the majority of landlords. The change was quite remarkable. Licencees suddenly started doing their job. If there were fights outside their pub then it went on the pub record. Any number of fights and they were in danger of losing their licence.

All of a sudden trouble dropped remarkably. Bouncers would not simply throw drunks into the street but manage them. It was a success. The number of problems dropped.

That is EXACTLY the point IMO. Licencees are supposed to be responsible for managing their customers but have been able to walk away from their obligations.

If people are coming out of a pub/club rolling drunk then it's the pub/club which should be under scrutiny.

The "minimum unit price" idea is a joke. People will still be "pre-loading" before a night out whether the bottle of vodka costs £10 or £20 - still massively cheaper than buying drinks once you're out.

[roachcoach]

frosted said:

roachcoach said:

Of course it is the same, it is exactly the same.

Even if I was, it is precisely NONE of your business. Stop telling people how to live their lives based on your value system.

Yet it's not the same , not even close !

Please expand then, educate me as to how why *I* should pay more, because *others* cannot cope.

ETA: As I said before, it is the same principle as saying 'some people cannot cope behind the wheel of a car, lets make fuel more expensive to limit their driving'. That would have two effects: No change to nutters, but hitting all the normal people. It is in exactly the same vein as the suggestion to try and raise costs of alcohol - it does nothing to address the core issues, only serving as a money grab and a headline/news bite.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:06

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

Please expand then, educate me as to how why *I* should pay more, because *others* cannot cope.

ETA: As I said before, it is the same principle as saying 'some people cannot cope behind the wheel of a car, lets make fuel more expensive to limit their driving'. That would have two effects: No change to nutters, but hitting all the normal people. It is in exactly the same vein as the suggestion to try and raise costs of alcohol - it does nothing to address the core issues, only serving as a money grab and a headline/news bite.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:06

fk me , your comparing bad driving which affects a very small proportion of the population to something that affects most of the population . That is where the difference is

Go to a&e at the weekend and see how many people go there with car related injuries, then compare that to alcohol related violence

[hollydog]

superkartracer said:

Car deaths - 2500 per year

Drink related - 10000 per year

750,000 from eating to much lard ( heart attack )

Cannabis - about 10 per year

So, ban cars/fat people/drink and smoke dope, simples

Edited by superkartracer on Thursday 16th February 11:39

Need to get your facts right . Theres 125000 die through heart attacks per year . Of these 30.000 is directly through beening seriously over weight. The other 95.000 are just normal sizes varied ages. and even healthy thin people can have heart attacks.

[roachcoach]

Still waiting to know why I, a responsible adult, should pay more for the antics of a bunch of aholes. Doubly so when there's a perfectly god way to stop them being aholes already. Existing law.

Besides, cars likely kill more children than alcohol....not so cut and dried is it?

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:18

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

Still waiting to know why I, a responsible adult, should pay more for the antics of a bunch of aholes.

Besides, cars likely kill more children than alcohol....not so cut and dried is it?

Because technically you being an responsible adult will not drink 10- 20 pints a night every Thursday,Friday and Saturday

If you can think of another way to curb drinking please feel free to tell me

[roachcoach]

We've been over this, drinking isnt the issue, aholes are.

I fking GUARANTEE if weekend warriors were hit with sentences like the rioters it'd stop fking smartly.

Of course, that doesnt make money off the masses and the politicians dont even have the balls to add a mandatory high sentence to carrying a blade so I guess we'll not see a fair solution quickly.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:23

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

We've been over this, drinking isnt the issue, aholes are.

I fking GUARANTEE if weekend warriors were hit with sentences like the rioters it'd stop fking smartly.

Of course, that doesnt make money off the masses and the politicians dont even have the balls to add a mandatory high sentence to carrying a blade so I guess we'll not see a fair solution quickly.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:23

I understand exactly what you are saying , I just can't see how we could make people consume less alcohol unless they get priced out. Let's be honest, alcohol is cool, most people rate their wkends by how plastered they get and what mischief they cause, I could go on and write an essay but I really can't be bothered because you know I'm right and you know there's no other way.

[roachcoach]

There's actually no hope for you. Pity. I get it though, bad personal experience therefore ALL of it is bad and you probably think it should be banned.

The middle east is that way, I think you'd like their alcohol rules.

Edited by roachcoach on Thursday 16th February 14:39

[frosted]

roachcoach said:

There's actually no hope for you. Pity.

The middle east is that way, I think you'd like their alcohol rules.

I think where we have different views is that your talking about a 50 yr old couple that like nice dinning with a bottle of wine and I'm talking about the state of our bars,clubs,pubs and highstreets

[thinfourth2]

frosted said:

I understand exactly what you are saying , I just can't see how we could make people consume less alcohol unless they get priced out. Let's be honest, alcohol is cool, most people rate their wkends by how plastered they get and what mischief they cause, I could go on and write an essay but I really can't be bothered because you know I'm right and you know there's no other way.

you are actually exceedingly wrong most people don't rate their weekend by how drunk they got, a small stupid minority do but not most.

Also you seem to have a problem with drunk folk smashing st up so would you be perfectly happy if sober people smashed stuff up?

[superkartracer]

hollydog said:

Need to get your facts right . Theres 125000 die through heart attacks per year . Of these 30.000 is directly through beening seriously over weight. The other 95.000 are just normal sizes varied ages. and even healthy thin people can have heart attacks.

You eat lots of pie's don't you?

i added extra numbers* for effect and tbh could not care a toss if fat lazy fkers die from heart attacks, yes thin healthy people can have heart attacks but very rare, thin smoking piss artists, yep loads.

• it was the US cases

[Digga]

thinfourth2 said:

frosted said:

I understand exactly what you are saying , I just can't see how we could make people consume less alcohol unless they get priced out. Let's be honest, alcohol is cool, most people rate their wkends by how plastered they get and what mischief they cause, I could go on and write an essay but I really can't be bothered because you know I'm right and you know there's no other way.

you are actually exceedingly wrong most people don't rate their weekend by how drunk they got, a small stupid minority do but not most.

Also you seem to have a problem with drunk folk smashing st up so would you be perfectly happy if sober people smashed stuff up?

Or people on PCP or some other illgal narcotic which suddenly, post-legislation, gives them a better bang for their buck?

Because let's face it, the intent of this is prohibition by tax and we've seen from 1930's America how much of a success that was and how little violelnce was involved in drawing more people underground brought.

[cocopop]

Presumably the loss in tax will be made up for by increasing fuel duties, as per usual. Great

[crankedup]

sleep envy said:

I think there's you answer.

BTW, I do care if it costs me £10 more a week if cretins don't know how to handle their drink.

Quite so, and I am not taking the pee when I mention our pensioner friends, they are not all the silver surfers going on three holidays a year. Some old blokes and woman still enjoy a few pints of stout topped up with gin and tonic. An extra tenner a week may be quite a sum of money to those without a works pension.

[crankedup]

Mobile Chicane said:

People don't stop drinking due to the cost. They make / buy illegal alcohol, or their kids go without.

We have had the bottles of poisoned paradise here in East Anglia, pay 7 quid for a bottle of chemicals dressed to look like a decent bottle of spirit. The stuff was actually being stocked by the less 'caring' side of the booze retailers. Bloody scary stuff and if extra tax goes onto proper booze it merely opens the door wider to this type of crap.

[Mobile Chicane]

crankedup said:

Mobile Chicane said:

People don't stop drinking due to the cost. They make / buy illegal alcohol, or their kids go without.

We have had the bottles of poisoned paradise here in East Anglia, pay 7 quid for a bottle of chemicals dressed to look like a decent bottle of spirit. The stuff was actually being stocked by the less 'caring' side of the booze retailers. Bloody scary stuff and if extra tax goes onto proper booze it merely opens the door wider to this type of crap.

A cousin in Estonia went blind and died from methanol poisoning as a result of drinking illegal vodka.

Apparently it's a growing problem in the present economic climate: unemployment is high, and drowning one's sorrows is part of the northern european mindset.

<PH> If allowed to spread here it will remove a few scumbags from the gene pool </PH>

[crankedup]

Mobile Chicane said:

A cousin in Estonia went blind and died from methanol poisoning as a result of drinking illegal vodka.

Apparently it's a growing problem in the present economic climate: unemployment is high, and drowning one's sorrows is part of the northern european mindset.

<PH> If allowed to spread here it will remove a few scumbags from the gene pool </PH>

The BiB and Customs were busy doing their best to track the poisons down, for that is what it is, as you mention your cousin died after drinking the stuff. Apparently you cannot taste the poisonous elements and think you have just had a good deal. I guess the skint and desperate people convince themselves its good stuff. This stuff is apparently coming over in large quantities, the Government might think about addressing this much more serious problem perhaps.

[Ozzie Osmond]

roachcoach said:

We've been over this, drinking isnt the issue, aholes are.

I GUARANTEE if weekend warriors were hit with sentences like the rioters it'd stop smartly.

Of course, that doesnt make money off the masses and the politicians dont even have the balls to add a mandatory high sentence to carrying a blade so I guess we'll not see a fair solution quickly.

Completely agree. Government and councils are too scared about "damaging the economy" or some such nonsense and just love the idea of not addressing the town centre problem but increasing taxes on everyone instead.

It really is a sign of the times...