London cabbies to protest over smartphone app.
Discussion
valiant said:
Have some sympathy with the black cabbies though, they're forced to buy certain vehicles that can cost in excess of £30k new and have no real say on how much to charge and have to maintain their vehicles to a much higher standard than a normal minicab plus dealing with the joys of tfl only for them to fudge the issue and show little leadership. Is it any wonder they're pissed?
Erm nobody forced anybody to do anything.They chose to set up a business for which the rules of participation in the particular variant of the industry they selected to work in, had heavy regulation, including a vehicle meeting certain criteria. Those rules aren't new.
The tool of their trade happened to be a £30k car in the same way that someone who chose to be a mechanic might have £30k of tools or a photographer might have £30k of cameras and lenses and laptops. In each case acquiring and paying off those tools of the trade is part of their business plan.
Now if they were short-sighted enough when setting up their business plan to think they were going to get an automatic and protected income for 30 years and things would never change (technology, change of government etc) that's their own fault. Realistically few business can guarantee or plan beyond 5 years or so, who knows for sure what a future government might do or cause, or in this case that TfL would maintain the exact same regulation forever?
Sorry the gravy train they chose is starting to hit the buffers. It happens in all careers and industries. If taxi driving had ever guaranteed an income for life then half the country would be doing it, and pricing each other out of the finite number of requirements anyway.
We have Uber and Careem out here in Dubai, as well as the RTA (yuk) and I much prefer Careem as they don't have the Surge Pricing.
Also with Careem you can have a choice of "first class" "business" and "4x4" vehicles.
Another plus for Careem is you can actually CALL them so not relying on an internet/data connection.
I will miss Careem when I go to Blackpool on holiday
Claire
Also with Careem you can have a choice of "first class" "business" and "4x4" vehicles.
Another plus for Careem is you can actually CALL them so not relying on an internet/data connection.
I will miss Careem when I go to Blackpool on holiday
Claire
kev1974 said:
Erm nobody forced anybody to do anything.
They chose to set up a business for which the rules of participation in the particular variant of the industry they selected to work in, had heavy regulation, including a vehicle meeting certain criteria. Those rules aren't new.
The tool of their trade happened to be a £30k car in the same way that someone who chose to be a mechanic might have £30k of tools or a photographer might have £30k of cameras and lenses and laptops. In each case acquiring and paying off those tools of the trade is part of their business plan.
Now if they were short-sighted enough when setting up their business plan to think they were going to get an automatic and protected income for 30 years and things would never change (technology, change of government etc) that's their own fault. Realistically few business can guarantee or plan beyond 5 years or so, who knows for sure what a future government might do or cause, or in this case that TfL would maintain the exact same regulation forever?
Sorry the gravy train they chose is starting to hit the buffers. It happens in all careers and industries. If taxi driving had ever guaranteed an income for life then half the country would be doing it, and pricing each other out of the finite number of requirements anyway.
Eh?They chose to set up a business for which the rules of participation in the particular variant of the industry they selected to work in, had heavy regulation, including a vehicle meeting certain criteria. Those rules aren't new.
The tool of their trade happened to be a £30k car in the same way that someone who chose to be a mechanic might have £30k of tools or a photographer might have £30k of cameras and lenses and laptops. In each case acquiring and paying off those tools of the trade is part of their business plan.
Now if they were short-sighted enough when setting up their business plan to think they were going to get an automatic and protected income for 30 years and things would never change (technology, change of government etc) that's their own fault. Realistically few business can guarantee or plan beyond 5 years or so, who knows for sure what a future government might do or cause, or in this case that TfL would maintain the exact same regulation forever?
Sorry the gravy train they chose is starting to hit the buffers. It happens in all careers and industries. If taxi driving had ever guaranteed an income for life then half the country would be doing it, and pricing each other out of the finite number of requirements anyway.
The only reason they sign up to a two year course, a £30k crap taxi and a tarif set by TFL is that TFL guarantee them that they won't allow anyone else to do the same for less.
Without that two way agreement then TFL wouldn't be able to sell the licenses. It's TFL who created the specific model.
And now TFL have gone back on their deal and after accepting all the money for the Black Cabs have effectively licensed another group that has none of the cost constraints set by TFL.
In short, a whole group of people who are professionally trained have just been 100% screwed over by their governing body.
It makes no sense whatsoever.
Puggit said:
Apparently downloads of Uber were up by over 800% yesterday (I assume above the daily download rate).
Never having the need to use the black cabs, fortunately, this doesn't affect me but it is funny to see how the protest has backfired.Even if controls are put on uber use, the damage has been done.
gjc10212 said:
DonkeyApple said:
How?
The entire purpose of the Black Cabbis that it is 100% regulated by a third party. Ie TFL. The cabbies don't set the fares.
But they can choose a longer route and 'earn' extra money. The entire purpose of the Black Cabbis that it is 100% regulated by a third party. Ie TFL. The cabbies don't set the fares.
What does a black London cab driver earn per week £1k?
I'm sure some will take the piss but it isn't the norm. Now, minicabs on the other hand when they used to charge £/mile were absolute robbers and even after the dominance of corporate cabs and Addison Lee changed that billing practice I still have disputes regularly with them as they try and change the agreed fee.
A Black Cab should be able to earn £1000 a week. Obviously they control their income by the number of hours they work and the seasonal or weather changes. How much do you think a minicab can earn and from a base where their tool is much cheaper, they have no discernible initial capital outlay in regards to paying to study for 12/24 months and collect cash that is unmetered?
And let's not forget, why do you think Addison Lee are slightly cheaper than a black cab on average? Is it pure coincidence? Of course not. Black Cab tariffs regulate the cost for all so everyone benefits.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Having watched the news, read this thread & discussed it with the wife....
Can anybody, very quickly, please let us know the precise reason black cab owners are up in arms about all of this?
TFL (Transport For London) set licencing rules for Taxis.Can anybody, very quickly, please let us know the precise reason black cab owners are up in arms about all of this?
Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.
Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations.
TFL decide to let high court determine if Uber is a taxi meter system or not rather than make their own decision.
Cabbies protest in large numbers to make their voice heard.
TFL head of surface transport calls the protest "Pointless" and ignores them.
That about sums it up really. The reason I'm with the cabbies is the way TFL yet again show massive incompetence in letting things get this far. Their heads are on huge salaries (think £600k +) yet they can't make a decision themselves when their own regulation are clear as day.
If Uber provided a fixed fare at the start of the journey , just like Addison Lee - there would be no problem at all. If Uber insisted all their drivers and drivers vehicles complied with the TFL Taxi licencing laws then again - no problem.
That the don't do either and are allowed to operate by TFL is a joke.
I rarely use black cabs (have never used Uber) and try to avoid Addison Lee but I really feel there is a massive amount of unfairness in all this hence why I'm on the cabbies side.
For all those who say just sell the cab and drive for Uber - is that really the answer? Don't fight for your business in the face of unfair competition just give up? Remember each black cab is an individual business.
Campo said:
TFL (Transport For London) set licencing rules for Taxis.
Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.
Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations.
TFL decide to let high court determine if Uber is a taxi meter system or not rather than make their own decision.
Cabbies protest in large numbers to make their voice heard.
TFL head of surface transport calls the protest "Pointless" and ignores them.
That about sums it up really. The reason I'm with the cabbies is the way TFL yet again show massive incompetence in letting things get this far. Their heads are on huge salaries (think £600k +) yet they can't make a decision themselves when their own regulation are clear as day.
If Uber provided a fixed fare at the start of the journey , just like Addison Lee - there would be no problem at all. If Uber insisted all their drivers and drivers vehicles complied with the TFL Taxi licencing laws then again - no problem.
That the don't do either and are allowed to operate by TFL is a joke.
I rarely use black cabs (have never used Uber) and try to avoid Addison Lee but I really feel there is a massive amount of unfairness in all this hence why I'm on the cabbies side.
For all those who say just sell the cab and drive for Uber - is that really the answer? Don't fight for your business in the face of unfair competition just give up? Remember each black cab is an individual business.
The metering issues a bit of a red herring at the end of the day isn't it? They've clutched onto it and I'm not saying it isn't a valid legal point but their gripe is that due to the smartphone technology they're being superseded in a fundamental way from maintaining the cartel they have over cab rides in london.Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.
Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations.
TFL decide to let high court determine if Uber is a taxi meter system or not rather than make their own decision.
Cabbies protest in large numbers to make their voice heard.
TFL head of surface transport calls the protest "Pointless" and ignores them.
That about sums it up really. The reason I'm with the cabbies is the way TFL yet again show massive incompetence in letting things get this far. Their heads are on huge salaries (think £600k +) yet they can't make a decision themselves when their own regulation are clear as day.
If Uber provided a fixed fare at the start of the journey , just like Addison Lee - there would be no problem at all. If Uber insisted all their drivers and drivers vehicles complied with the TFL Taxi licencing laws then again - no problem.
That the don't do either and are allowed to operate by TFL is a joke.
I rarely use black cabs (have never used Uber) and try to avoid Addison Lee but I really feel there is a massive amount of unfairness in all this hence why I'm on the cabbies side.
For all those who say just sell the cab and drive for Uber - is that really the answer? Don't fight for your business in the face of unfair competition just give up? Remember each black cab is an individual business.
hairyben said:
Campo said:
TFL (Transport For London) set licencing rules for Taxis.
Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.
Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations.
TFL decide to let high court determine if Uber is a taxi meter system or not rather than make their own decision.
Cabbies protest in large numbers to make their voice heard.
TFL head of surface transport calls the protest "Pointless" and ignores them.
That about sums it up really. The reason I'm with the cabbies is the way TFL yet again show massive incompetence in letting things get this far. Their heads are on huge salaries (think £600k +) yet they can't make a decision themselves when their own regulation are clear as day.
If Uber provided a fixed fare at the start of the journey , just like Addison Lee - there would be no problem at all. If Uber insisted all their drivers and drivers vehicles complied with the TFL Taxi licencing laws then again - no problem.
That the don't do either and are allowed to operate by TFL is a joke.
I rarely use black cabs (have never used Uber) and try to avoid Addison Lee but I really feel there is a massive amount of unfairness in all this hence why I'm on the cabbies side.
For all those who say just sell the cab and drive for Uber - is that really the answer? Don't fight for your business in the face of unfair competition just give up? Remember each black cab is an individual business.
The metering issues a bit of a red herring at the end of the day isn't it? They've clutched onto it and I'm not saying it isn't a valid legal point but their gripe is that due to the smartphone technology they're being superseded in a fundamental way from maintaining the cartel they have over cab rides in london.Uber appears on the market using a phone app as a Taxi meter - TFL grant them an operators licence as a Private Hire company.
Black Cab drivers protests against TFL for allowing a metered Taxi service to operate outside the rules and regulations they are forced to comply with hence TFL not abiding by their own regulations.
TFL decide to let high court determine if Uber is a taxi meter system or not rather than make their own decision.
Cabbies protest in large numbers to make their voice heard.
TFL head of surface transport calls the protest "Pointless" and ignores them.
That about sums it up really. The reason I'm with the cabbies is the way TFL yet again show massive incompetence in letting things get this far. Their heads are on huge salaries (think £600k +) yet they can't make a decision themselves when their own regulation are clear as day.
If Uber provided a fixed fare at the start of the journey , just like Addison Lee - there would be no problem at all. If Uber insisted all their drivers and drivers vehicles complied with the TFL Taxi licencing laws then again - no problem.
That the don't do either and are allowed to operate by TFL is a joke.
I rarely use black cabs (have never used Uber) and try to avoid Addison Lee but I really feel there is a massive amount of unfairness in all this hence why I'm on the cabbies side.
For all those who say just sell the cab and drive for Uber - is that really the answer? Don't fight for your business in the face of unfair competition just give up? Remember each black cab is an individual business.
It is down to the fact that fundamentally, TFL have breached their contract by issuing a license to a minicab firm to run on meters. TFL should never have done it and have caused this issue unecassarily.
And don't forget, Black Cabs do not run a cartel. TFL creates and runs the cartel. And it has just screwed over its members who pay the premium to be part of that cartel.
Zod said:
Well, I took an Uber E Class home from a drinks party last night. Very pleasant and cost me about 70% of the black cab fare.
Having never used them , do you see what you're being charged as you drive along or do you just get something on your app at the end? Also, can you hop out early if you get stuck in traffic?How much was the fare and how much is it normally when you get a black cab at the same time of day?
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