US Journalists Shot Dead On Air
Discussion
AJL308 said:
The massive problem in the USA is the seemingly large proportion of people who have serious undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) mental illness. When you look at a lot of shootings, especially the big ones, it's pretty clear that those perpetrating them have some very serious issues. The guy in this one seems to be going that way judging by his social media stuff. Look at the kid who did the Cinema shootings - clearly a first class nutter.
Possibly.I don't know other than that I simply don't think that you'd see similar in the UK if Tesco sold guns.
AJL308 said:
The massive problem in the USA is the seemingly large proportion of people who have serious undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) mental illness. When you look at a lot of shootings, especially the big ones, it's pretty clear that those perpetrating them have some very serious issues. The guy in this one seems to be going that way judging by his social media stuff. Look at the kid who did the Cinema shootings - clearly a first class nutter.
The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
I think this is nonsense - The reason there appears to be more nutcases in the US than, say, the UK, is that there are significantly more people in the US - the nutcase/normal ratio is pretty much the same in both countries.The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
US nutcases do have access to anti-psychotic medication, just the same as anywhere else (anti-psych meds are cheap) - the issue is that the nutcase's don't like the side-effects - and who can blame them? They are not undiagnosed nutcases usually - they are invariably diagnosed nutcases who are not taking their meds.
I think the big question is, why are diagnosed nutcases given access to firearms? I believe a referendum in the US would demonstrate support for psychological evaluation and background check of everyone who applies to purchase any kind of firearm. The cost of this would easily be covered by a tax levied on ammunition sales.
It does bewilder me that NRA/GOA oppose restrictions on firearm possession by nutcases.
croyde said:
Quite often when people are shot it takes a short time before they die.
Many manage to run, drive away or even shoot back before they succumb to their wounds.
That's why US cops keep shooting until the suspect stops moving.
Awful stuff. I'm a cameraman and in crowded volatile situations, I do worry sometimes about maybe getting knifed.
I've been punched and have had bottles and other missiles thrown at me, but at least in the UK I know that it is pretty unlikely that I'd be shot at.
Just seen the POV footage and at first glance it does seem odd that he fires alot of shots at her which seem close range but proably is further away then it looks. In anycase its shocking and RIP to those that died. Many manage to run, drive away or even shoot back before they succumb to their wounds.
That's why US cops keep shooting until the suspect stops moving.
Awful stuff. I'm a cameraman and in crowded volatile situations, I do worry sometimes about maybe getting knifed.
I've been punched and have had bottles and other missiles thrown at me, but at least in the UK I know that it is pretty unlikely that I'd be shot at.
I wonder what spin the NRA will put on it.
Oakey said:
AJL308 said:
The massive problem in the USA is the seemingly large proportion of people who have serious undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) mental illness. When you look at a lot of shootings, especially the big ones, it's pretty clear that those perpetrating them have some very serious issues. The guy in this one seems to be going that way judging by his social media stuff. Look at the kid who did the Cinema shootings - clearly a first class nutter.
The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
So the issue is people with mental health problems, not the prolific availability of guns? The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
Challo said:
Just seen the POV footage and at first glance it does seem odd that he fires alot of shots at her which seem close range but proably is further away then it looks. In anycase its shocking and RIP to those that died.
I wonder what spin the NRA will put on it.
Buy guns and defend yourself against these nutters. I wonder what spin the NRA will put on it.
Calletrece said:
It does serve a purpose, it means everyone gets to vicariously watch the crazy world of America and get off on people dying.
Seriously though, does everything have to be so yank based!? Hundreds die in the 3rd world, not a peep. Some nutter in a country of nutters shoots someone else and everyone in the UK tosses themselves into a frenzy over the footage of it.
Concur wholeheartedly. Seriously though, does everything have to be so yank based!? Hundreds die in the 3rd world, not a peep. Some nutter in a country of nutters shoots someone else and everyone in the UK tosses themselves into a frenzy over the footage of it.
Could not give 2 hoots about Americans shooting and killing each other. Live on air or otherwise.
It's just another facet of the rich tapestry of life.
Just keep them away from my part of Berkshire.
AJL308 said:
lauda said:
As I understand it, certain types of 'non-military' handguns are permitted in the UK.
I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
Nope. Not what that law says at all.I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
You cannot have any cartridge loading firearm which has a shorter than 300mm barrel and which is shorter than 600mm overall. Subject to certain exemptions. Those exemptions are, quite frankly, huge. Essentially, the *only* potential exemption which is not allowed is competitive target shooting.
Ironically, one of the exemptions for having an otherwise prohibited handgun is for the purpose of starting races at athletic meetings. So you can have them for officiating at certain sporting events but you can't have one to engage in the *sport* of target shooting!! Utter madness.
Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba))
So section 3 is consistent with what you've said about barrel and overall length but it seems to give fairly limited exemptions. It certainly doesn't provide for the use of an otherwise prohibited handgun for the purpose of starting races at an athletics event since only a firearm designed for that specific purpose is permitted. And I'm guessing that the design of a starter gun is not focused on making it accurate firing a missile for the purpose of target shooting.
Matt Harper said:
I think the big question is, why are diagnosed nutcases given access to firearms? I believe a referendum in the US would demonstrate support for psychological evaluation and background check of everyone who applies to purchase any kind of firearm. The cost of this would easily be covered by a tax levied on ammunition sales.
It does bewilder me that NRA/GOA oppose restrictions on firearm possession by nutcases.
Contrary to what the right believe I think a referendum would approve all sorts of sensible controls on firearm purchases here. It does bewilder me that NRA/GOA oppose restrictions on firearm possession by nutcases.
The NRA oppose any and all gun control measures because they see it as the thin end of the wedge.
t! I'd expect death is the usual outcome from killing yourself.lauda said:
AJL308 said:
lauda said:
As I understand it, certain types of 'non-military' handguns are permitted in the UK.
I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
Nope. Not what that law says at all.I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
You cannot have any cartridge loading firearm which has a shorter than 300mm barrel and which is shorter than 600mm overall. Subject to certain exemptions. Those exemptions are, quite frankly, huge. Essentially, the *only* potential exemption which is not allowed is competitive target shooting.
Ironically, one of the exemptions for having an otherwise prohibited handgun is for the purpose of starting races at athletic meetings. So you can have them for officiating at certain sporting events but you can't have one to engage in the *sport* of target shooting!! Utter madness.
Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba))
So section 3 is consistent with what you've said about barrel and overall length but it seems to give fairly limited exemptions. It certainly doesn't provide for the use of an otherwise prohibited handgun for the purpose of starting races at an athletics event since only a firearm designed for that specific purpose is permitted. And I'm guessing that the design of a starter gun is not focused on making it accurate firing a missile for the purpose of target shooting.
Mastodon2 said:
It's not uncommon for people who've been shot to not even realise it,
Years ago I was mates with a guy who got into a fight in a club. A few of us stepped in to break it up, we all got throw outside. After about 10-15 minutes the Adrenalin had worn off my mate he realised he had been stabbed in side. It was only a superfical wound but still he hadn't noticed it.
That video of it is one of those things I knew I shouldn't watch it but I do, and now I wish I hadn't. Terrible. Those poor people.
Oakey said:
AJL308 said:
The massive problem in the USA is the seemingly large proportion of people who have serious undiagnosed (or even diagnosed) mental illness. When you look at a lot of shootings, especially the big ones, it's pretty clear that those perpetrating them have some very serious issues. The guy in this one seems to be going that way judging by his social media stuff. Look at the kid who did the Cinema shootings - clearly a first class nutter.
The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
So the issue is people with mental health problems, not the prolific availability of guns? The fact that the USA seems utterly unwilling to establish any form of universal health care - even if only for mentally unbalanced people - is their real problem.
It's sad for the 2 people he shot and to a lessor extent for the gun man, but not sad in the slightest for the country.
They have got themselves into this mess and they will have to put up with various mass and or high profile shooting like this until they act in someway to stop it. It won't happen, guns are to ingrained into US culture. Maybe it would be better if these incidents weren't even reported, hard to do in this instance, bt I feel a lot are looking for fame and notoriety.
They have got themselves into this mess and they will have to put up with various mass and or high profile shooting like this until they act in someway to stop it. It won't happen, guns are to ingrained into US culture. Maybe it would be better if these incidents weren't even reported, hard to do in this instance, bt I feel a lot are looking for fame and notoriety.
lauda said:
AJL308 said:
lauda said:
As I understand it, certain types of 'non-military' handguns are permitted in the UK.
I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
Nope. Not what that law says at all.I'm not saying that you couldn't kill someone with one of these but their primary purpose is not to kill and therefore it would be more difficult to use them to commit the sorts of atrocities that seem to be increasingly frequent in the US.
You cannot have any cartridge loading firearm which has a shorter than 300mm barrel and which is shorter than 600mm overall. Subject to certain exemptions. Those exemptions are, quite frankly, huge. Essentially, the *only* potential exemption which is not allowed is competitive target shooting.
Ironically, one of the exemptions for having an otherwise prohibited handgun is for the purpose of starting races at athletic meetings. So you can have them for officiating at certain sporting events but you can't have one to engage in the *sport* of target shooting!! Utter madness.
Those weapons and ammunition, which are prohibited, consist of:
i) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger (section 5(1)(a));
ii) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rimfire cartridges (section 5(1)(ab));
iii) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30 centimetres in length or is less than 60 centimetres in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus (section 5(1)(aba))
So section 3 is consistent with what you've said about barrel and overall length but it seems to give fairly limited exemptions. It certainly doesn't provide for the use of an otherwise prohibited handgun for the purpose of starting races at an athletics event since only a firearm designed for that specific purpose is permitted. And I'm guessing that the design of a starter gun is not focused on making it accurate firing a missile for the purpose of target shooting.
The exemptions are contained in the 1997 Act;
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1997/5/part/I
It's too long to cut and past so click the link above.
Like I say, that section basically contains exemptions for any conceivable use of an otherwise prohibited pistol *apart* from competitive pistol shooting. The fact that you can possess prohibited pistols for officiating at certain sporting events but cannot do so far participating in the sport of pistol shooting is, speaking as an ex-pistol shooter, insulting quite honestly.
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