Can we talk about Germany for a bit?

[don'tbesilly]

Trabi601 said:

We should also remember that it's only recently the UK has resolved its differences with the Catholic IRA - so to point fingers that terrorism is an Islamic issue is entirely wrong. Whilst there is a lot of knee-jerk racism regarding the failed abduction at Marham - it's not that long ago British military personnel were living in fear of the IRA taking them off the streets and executing them in a field in Ireland.

You'd have to go back to 2001 to find any reports of terrorist attacks by the IRA in the UK (car bomb - Birmingham).

This knee-jerk racism you talk about in regards the incident in Marham, which source/s are making racist comments?
What specifically makes the reports racist?

[Don1]

scherzkeks said:

Trabi601 said:

gruffalo said:

I agree no real difference but I just felt it showed the complete and wreckless lack of checking who was being admitted into Europe.

The west is largely responsible for the clusterfk in the Middle East, we cannot just wash our hands of a problem we created.

Whilst we cannot rescue every single victim, we do have some level of responsibility.

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

Doctor, call a nurse. I agree with both Trabi and Scherzkeks.... I must be due a nap!

[Mr GrimNasty]

scherzkeks said:

Trabi601 said:

gruffalo said:

I agree no real difference but I just felt it showed the complete and wreckless lack of checking who was being admitted into Europe.

The west is largely responsible for the clusterfk in the Middle East, we cannot just wash our hands of a problem we created.

Whilst we cannot rescue every single victim, we do have some level of responsibility.

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

It's a totally false argument. The ME has been in turmoil since ages. (People claim African intervention has been ignored because it has no oil, well (a) it does (b) large parts of Africa are as bad as the ME and deteriorating).

And 99.999999999999999999% of the people in the West are not responsible for the West's interventions and did not want them to happen.

Importing, en masse, exactly the same sort of destabilizing attitudes and forces that have ruined the ME and Africa over centuries, is not going to solve anything or atone for anything. It will just ruin even more of the world.

[Digga]

Mr GrimNasty said:

scherzkeks said:

Trabi601 said:

gruffalo said:

I agree no real difference but I just felt it showed the complete and wreckless lack of checking who was being admitted into Europe.

The west is largely responsible for the clusterfk in the Middle East, we cannot just wash our hands of a problem we created.

Whilst we cannot rescue every single victim, we do have some level of responsibility.

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

It's a totally false argument. The ME has been in turmoil since ages. (People claim African intervention has been ignored because it has no oil, well (a) it does (b) large parts of Africa are as bad as the ME and deteriorating).

And 99.999999999999999999% of the people in the West are not responsible for the West's interventions and did not want them to happen.

Importing, en masse, exactly the same sort of destabilizing attitudes and forces that have ruined the ME and Africa over centuries, is not going to solve anything or atone for anything. It will just ruin even more of the world.

Superb post.

The tourist stabbing attack in France which it would appear has no basis in terrorism, but rather a bizarrely perceived slight, is exactly the sort of clash of cultures we risk, every time we allow people into the West who have no understanding of it, no integration to it and no stake in it.

There are literally millions of non-Western immigrants living happily, productively and harmoniously within the West, so clearly the issue and the errors are in selection, integration and control.

[Esseesse]

Pesty said:

Trabi601 said:

Pesty said:

Not terrorism nope, not a chance, just youth hi jinx with bombs and st.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/20/sikh-te...

Why does anyone bother quoting from that far right propaganda site?

They'd twist even the most innocent story to blame immigrants.

how is reporting that a Sikh temple was blown up by 3 Muslims far right propaganda?

It happened Muslims blew up a Sikh temple this is a fact. They were known to the authorities this again is fact this is not propaganda .the court case happened the bomb happened they did it. They were known, they were actually known because one of them was grassed up by their mother because he was planning to go abroad and Join terrorists. They were terrorist sympathisers who used a bomb to blow a temple up.

Not seeing the far right propaganda can you elucidate ?

This is a case of not having a coherent argument against information that contradicts someone's views, and therefore having to resort to undermining the source in an attempt to feel more secure.

Pretty much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Wiki said:

Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. An individual who experiences inconsistency (dissonance) tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to try to reduce this dissonance.

[Sam All]

Digga said:

Superb post.

The tourist stabbing attack in France which it would appear has no basis in terrorism, but rather a bizarrely perceived slight, is exactly the sort of clash of cultures we risk, every time we allow people into the West who have no understanding of it, no integration to it and no stake in it.

There are literally millions of non-Western immigrants living happily, productively and harmoniously within the West, so clearly the issue and the errors are in selection, integration and control.

& another superb post.

We run the risk of being dragged down otherwise.

[Digga]

Sam All said:

Digga said:

Superb post.

The tourist stabbing attack in France which it would appear has no basis in terrorism, but rather a bizarrely perceived slight, is exactly the sort of clash of cultures we risk, every time we allow people into the West who have no understanding of it, no integration to it and no stake in it.

There are literally millions of non-Western immigrants living happily, productively and harmoniously within the West, so clearly the issue and the errors are in selection, integration and control.

& another superb post.

We run the risk of being dragged down otherwise.

It is easy to forget that a lot of people worried about immigration were themselves immigrant. Firstly, they often know the chaos of the ROW, often have come here to escape it, and certainly do not want it importing. Secondly, there is also a view, shared by many people, that the UK is 'full'. Now there are many and various ways of measuring and disputing this fact, but there's little doubt that all of our infrastructure is under strain and lacking investment and, for many people, there is a fear of being pushed further out of the trough.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Pesty said:

how is reporting that a Sikh temple was blown up by 3 Muslims far right propaganda?

It happened Muslims blew up a Sikh temple this is a fact. They were known to the authorities this again is fact this is not propaganda .the court case happened the bomb happened they did it. They were known, they were actually known because one of them was grassed up by their mother because he was planning to go abroad and Join terrorists. They were terrorist sympathisers who used a bomb to blow a temple up.

Not seeing the far right propaganda can you elucidate ?

the bold headline says "Sikh Temple Blown Up By Islamic State Supporters ‘Not Terrorism’ " suggesting someone is playing it down, there's some agenda at work
yet the article doesn't actually quote anyone saying it wasn't terrorism (mainly because no-one did actually say that

[scherzkeks]

Mr GrimNasty said:

scherzkeks said:

Trabi601 said:

gruffalo said:

I agree no real difference but I just felt it showed the complete and wreckless lack of checking who was being admitted into Europe.

The west is largely responsible for the clusterfk in the Middle East, we cannot just wash our hands of a problem we created.

Whilst we cannot rescue every single victim, we do have some level of responsibility.

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

It's a totally false argument. The ME has been in turmoil since ages. (People claim African intervention has been ignored because it has no oil, well (a) it does (b) large parts of Africa are as bad as the ME and deteriorating).

And 99.999999999999999999% of the people in the West are not responsible for the West's interventions and did not want them to happen.

Importing, en masse, exactly the same sort of destabilizing attitudes and forces that have ruined the ME and Africa over centuries, is not going to solve anything or atone for anything. It will just ruin even more of the world.

The West has been destabilizing the ME for decades. You can quite easily google the history on this. Or pick up a book.

As far as responsibility goes: Who elects our leaders? Who among us works for corporations that profit off of the instability? Who consumes resources brought in from that part of the world?

And who did not want what to happen, exactly? Some of the most egregious interventions over the past two decades were fully supported by much of the citzenry where I come from. Non-supporters being labeled traitors or terrorist enablers.

We do have a moral responsibility to help refugees. That said, we also need to be careful about who we take in, but that part seems to be obvious to the point that mentioning it seems redundant.

[poo at Paul's]

scherzkeks said:

We do have a moral responsibility to help refugees.

What, get them some more guns, like?

[Don1]

Reports of gunfire in a Munich shopping centre...

[rb5er]

scherzkeks said:

We do have a moral responsibility to help refugees. That said, we also need to be careful about who we take in, but that part seems to be obvious to the point that mentioning it seems redundant.

Such a contradiction. How would you suggest vetting these people? So far is seems to be failung miserably.

When imported "refugees" start terrorizing and killing your population its time to look after your own first.

[irocfan]

scherzkeks said:

The West has been destabilizing the ME for decades. You can quite easily google the history on this. Or pick up a book.

As far as responsibility goes: Who elects our leaders? Who among us works for corporations that profit off of the instability? Who consumes resources brought in from that part of the world?

And who did not want what to happen, exactly? Some of the most egregious interventions over the past two decades were fully supported by much of the citzenry where I come from. Non-supporters being labeled traitors or terrorist enablers.

We do have a moral responsibility to help refugees. That said, we also need to be careful about who we take in, but that part seems to be obvious to the point that mentioning it seems redundant.

And going back even further the Islamic world has been trying carve chunks out of the west too...

[Digga]

Don1 said:

Reports of gunfire in a Munich shopping centre...

Dispicably cowardly attack. I love Munich - it is awful to see events unfolding there. RIP to the victims.

[TheLordJohn]

Wonder if it's a Sebastian, or a Paul?
My money's on a Mohammed -

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/multiple-death...

Shame on you, Merkel.

• Edit* - Now I'm not one to say "I told you so", but I did -

'The lone gunman who killed nine people and wounded a further 21 at a shopping center in Munich before shooting himself was an 18-year-old German of Iranian descent, police have said.'

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/munich-shootin...

Edited by TheLordJohn on Saturday 23 July 07:08

[Mr GrimNasty]

scherzkeks said:

The West has been destabilizing the ME for decades. You can quite easily google the history on this. Or pick up a book.

As far as responsibility goes: Who elects our leaders? Who among us works for corporations that profit off of the instability? Who consumes resources brought in from that part of the world?

And who did not want what to happen, exactly? Some of the most egregious interventions over the past two decades were fully supported by much of the citzenry where I come from. Non-supporters being labeled traitors or terrorist enablers.

We do have a moral responsibility to help refugees. That said, we also need to be careful about who we take in, but that part seems to be obvious to the point that mentioning it seems redundant.

You're just reiterating the same tired old rubbish.

I am not responsible for anything, 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of people here are nor responsible.

We don't have any moral obligation to do anything (we have some legal ones in certain circumstances but that is not what you're talking about).

Some people with dangerously naive views and a personal agenda want to make us believe we have a moral obligation.

We don't.

For a start if the situation were reversed, Syrians wouldn't lift a finger to help us.

And there are plenty of countries closer to the region and with a better cultural compatibility who should be doing more first.

[poo at Paul's]

I'd not be at all surprised if this is a far right neo Nazi attack.

And the authorities will be all over that to make sure it is NOT covered up in any way.

[Halb]

scherzkeks said:

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

Indeed. But even though the US/UK have either directly or indirectly helped to wreck Iran/Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia and others it doesn't help the situation that the prolonged foreign policies of these nations governments have created. Even if the current polices were reversed, the situation now is that a capable and dangerous enemy has been created and fed.

[Hugo a Gogo]

poo at Paul's said:

I'd not be at all surprised if this is a far right neo Nazi attack.

And the authorities will be all over that to make sure it is NOT covered up in any way.

reports of one attacker shouting anti-foreigner stuff

edit: seen video of a rambling shouted argument from the roof of the shopping centre, shooter says "I was born here..I'm German"

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Friday 22 July 21:08

[scherzkeks]

Halb said:

scherzkeks said:

Prepare yourself for an onslaught of cretinous comments. No one wants to hear the truth.

Indeed. But even though the US/UK have either directly or indirectly helped to wreck Iran/Iraq/Syria/Saudi Arabia and others it doesn't help the situation that the prolonged foreign policies of these nations governments have created. Even if the current polices were reversed, the situation now is that a capable and dangerous enemy has been created and fed.

Of course. We are fked. I'm only pointing out that we largely created the mess we are in.