Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)

[Sway]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Tankrizzo said:

Mixed feelings today.

The political future isn't really great, is it, despite however you might feel about the absolute state of the Tories. We're facing an incoming administration who are essentially just the only option no matter the skillset or policies, and no matter how crap they are, they will face no challenge for years (aside from the usual rabble rousing at PMQs) from a subdued & neutered party in opposition. Even if Labour turn out to have some decent policies, the state of the economy will screw them for years from ever implementing stuff properly.

All true, however, they fact they're obviously going to win by a landslide means talented people will want to be Labour MP candidates and a lot of them will win. So hopefully SKS will have a lot of talent to choose from.

No one on a list for this GE has managed to get on it after seeing the polls!

[BigMon]

I think all the posters on here doom mongering about Labour should reflect that really the only reason Labour are where they are is due to the terrible last few Conservative administrations and their abject failure.

I see no reason why I should vote Conservative again after the last three elections and I am obviously not alone.

Is anyone here really rubbing their hands about Labour getting in? It very much is a case of least worst.

[PurplePenguin]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Tankrizzo said:

Mixed feelings today.

The political future isn't really great, is it, despite however you might feel about the absolute state of the Tories. We're facing an incoming administration who are essentially just the only option no matter the skillset or policies, and no matter how crap they are, they will face no challenge for years (aside from the usual rabble rousing at PMQs) from a subdued & neutered party in opposition. Even if Labour turn out to have some decent policies, the state of the economy will screw them for years from ever implementing stuff properly.

All true, however, they fact they're obviously going to win by a landslide means talented people will want to be Labour MP candidates and a lot of them will win. So hopefully SKS will have a lot of talent to choose from.

I can’t fking wait!

[Sway]

BigMon said:

I think all the posters on here doom mongering about Labour should reflect that really the only reason Labour are where they are is due to the terrible last few Conservative administrations and their abject failure.

I see no reason why I should vote Conservative again after the last three elections and I am obviously not alone.

Is anyone here really rubbing their hands about Labour getting in? It very much is a case of least worst.

There are a fair few rubbing their hands...

I can't bring myself to vote for 'least worst' anymore. I've now decided that unless a candidate has actually earnt my vote, then I'm spoiling ballot.

[Hippea]

D:Ream are dusting off their synth as we speak….

[Speed 3]

Sway said:

Speed 3 said:

The NHS is a monster that's a victim of it's own success and I don't know that any government can 'fix' it. I like Rory Stewart's idea of a cross-party review into what the scope of the NHS should be.

Gotta pick up on this point - the NHS is an abject failure.

So successful, that in nearly a century no other nation on earth has copied it.

Significantly underesourced compared to spend compared to peers. Outcomes awful. Etc.

Stewart is an idiot, but he's at least right on this one. However, the reality is that even if a cross party commission were established to completely redefine it's scope, structure, etc., the resistance to anything actually workable in the medium to long term would be greater than any protests the country has ever seen.

By success I meant ever more treatments being developed to keep sick people alive longer. Actually delivering all these additional tools is unaffordable for any government. We've lost sight of what the NHS should be for - primary & emergency care plus health education. Anything over and above should be self-insured.

IMO Stewart is most definitely not an idiot. A few more like in Westminster over the last decade would have led to a closer contest that the one that is over now.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Speed 3 said:

IMO Stewart is most definitely not an idiot. A few more like in Westminster over the last decade would have led to a closer contest that the one that is over now.

RS is superb but he'd have lost to Milliband because without the promise of a Brexit refferendum he'd have lost 20pc of his votes to UKIP.

[NomduJour]

Speed 3 said:

IMO Stewart is most definitely not an idiot

… and nor is he a Conservative. Don’t mind his books, though.

[768]

BigMon said:

I think all the posters on here doom mongering about Labour should reflect that really the only reason Labour are where they are is due to the terrible last few Conservative administrations and their abject failure.

I see no reason why I should vote Conservative again after the last three elections and I am obviously not alone.

Is anyone here really rubbing their hands about Labour getting in? It very much is a case of least worst.

Totally get not wanting to vote Conservative again, I didn't last time anyway and if we never saw them again, good riddance.

What I cannot fathom is how that means we're stuck with the Labour stshow again though as if that bunch of wasters offer any answers at all. We have posters who aren't just running their hands but literally go out campaigning for them. They're the fastest way back to another Conservative government.

The politicians we deserve I suppose.

[Hants PHer]

DeejRC said:

<edited for brevity>
Anyway, back to SKS and 2024. He should inherit a fairly optimistic outlook going forwards (in theory), but he will be constrained for his first 18months. The question initially will be how he manages that and then once things open up for him, what he will then do with that opportunity. I think that is where Chevron's view of SKS as a man utterly lacking in vision and convictions will start to get interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to see an internal Labour fight at that point.

I broadly agree with your post. SKS will probably have a thumping majority at his disposal - likely exceeding the Tories' majority in 2019. But he will have no idea what to do with it. Initially I expect to see some fringe things enacted like free school meals, VAT on private education and cancelling the Rwanda scheme.

18 months in, however, and the demands for substantial change big public spending will become louder. I agree that at this point the internal divisions will become obvious, especially if Rachel Reeves maintains tight control over public spending. The unions will be grumbling because they haven't had sufficient pay increases, NHS waiting lists will remain stubbornly high, and illegal immigration will have got worse and worse.

At this point, a Labour challenger with charisma might decide that the dithering SKS has to go. Wes Streeting, perhaps, or (shudder) Angela Rayner?

[NomduJour]

I doubt there’ll be much of a honeymoon period for Keith, this is miles away from Blair’s fakey PR push.

[Randy Winkman]

Speed 3 said:

By success I meant ever more treatments being developed to keep sick people alive longer. Actually delivering all these additional tools is unaffordable for any government. We've lost sight of what the NHS should be for - primary & emergency care plus health education. Anything over and above should be self-insured.

IMO Stewart is most definitely not an idiot. A few more like in Westminster over the last decade would have led to a closer contest that the one that is over now.

I'm not sure how to distinguish "keeping sick people alive longer" from "primary and emergency care".

[President Merkin]

Presumably, anything beyond emergency & primary care would look like chronic long term conditions. Exactly the kind of thing insurers run a mile from.

[NomduJour]

So why are outcomes better under pretty much every other healthcare system?

[President Merkin]

NomduJour said:

So why are outcomes better under pretty much every other healthcare system?

I don't know, I'm not a health care analyst.

Would you like a boiled down, simplistic answer of the kind so beloved of populists, or perhaps we could all go away & do extensive reading around an obviously complex topic & come to some reasoned conclusions? Because if it's the former you'd prefer then it's because woke, mate.

[NomduJour]

You’re a Labour stooge - tell us what Keith is going to do to improve the NHS? Aside from tip in even more insane amounts of money?

[Rufus Stone]

NomduJour said:

You’re a Labour stooge - tell us what Keith is going to do to improve the NHS? Aside from tip in even more insane amounts of money?

What's with the 'Keith'?

[President Merkin]

NomduJour said:

You’re a Labour stooge

Hang on, let me understand something. Apart from not being a Labour voter, which you have incorrectly assumed. Is your postion that anyone who supports a political party contrary to your own political beliefs is a stooge?

Dunnig Kreuger moment - do you reckon you have enough about you to be in this here game? Because your language suggests not.

[Mr Penguin]

Their plans are listed here: https://www.bmj.com/content/381/bmj.p943

I think Wes Streeting has good ideas, whether he can get them past the unions and work with the civil service to refine them to actually deal with all the complexities of the NHS while running the day to day operations in a climate where there really is no money is a completely different question.

If he fails to get them through, I don't think anyone should hold it against him - it's a staggeringly huge task. Ken Clarke said the BMA were the toughest opponents he ever had to deal with.

[NomduJour]

President Merkin said:

Because your language suggests not

You are not worth the (minimal) effort. Carry on spamming NP&E.