Discussion
The bottom line is that the supermarkets have alternative suppliers, probably at close to the price they are offering, that they can turn to if the British farmers don't agree to their pricing. I don't believe they want to do that because of the poor publicity it would generate but the problem for the farmers is that they have little alternative but to sell to the supermarkets because they have failed to generate alternative markets. This means that they don't have much leverage in any negotiation on price. In addition there must be an oversupply of milk because otherwise the price would not drop.
What I don't understand is why a continental producer can offer at lower prices unless it's just the effect of the weak Euro.
L.F
What I don't understand is why a continental producer can offer at lower prices unless it's just the effect of the weak Euro.
L.F
lockhart flawse said:
What I don't understand is why a continental producer can offer at lower prices unless it's just the effect of the weak Euro.
The Euro, feed prices on the continent, CAP subsidies (probably the main one, the less efficient the producer the more subsidy they receive, British producers being some of the most efficient in Europe - to deal with the demands of the supermarkets - come way down the list for subsidies).Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, well I'm sure I am but....
The Fair Trade Foundation is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world
Is there an argument that we shouldn't be just thinking about little brown skinned chaps scratching a living in a rainforest.
Now, I for one, considering the Common Agricultural Policy is approximately half of the EU budget, find it bizarre that we are in this situation. Something clearly isn't working despite costing us a fortune.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15341313
The Fair Trade Foundation is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world
Is there an argument that we shouldn't be just thinking about little brown skinned chaps scratching a living in a rainforest.
Now, I for one, considering the Common Agricultural Policy is approximately half of the EU budget, find it bizarre that we are in this situation. Something clearly isn't working despite costing us a fortune.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15341313
ExFiF said:
Maybe I'm being a bit thick here, well I'm sure I am but....
The Fair Trade Foundation is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world
Is there an argument that we shouldn't be just thinking about little brown skinned chaps scratching a living in a rainforest.
Now, I for one, considering the Common Agricultural Policy is approximately half of the EU budget, find it bizarre that we are in this situation. Something clearly isn't working despite costing us a fortune.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15341313
Yes. But the EU doesn't serve us, but the interests of ever closer union, if that means shafting us - and in this case our agriculture and fishing industries, then so be it.The Fair Trade Foundation is about better prices, decent working conditions, local sustainability, and fair terms of trade for farmers and workers in the developing world
Is there an argument that we shouldn't be just thinking about little brown skinned chaps scratching a living in a rainforest.
Now, I for one, considering the Common Agricultural Policy is approximately half of the EU budget, find it bizarre that we are in this situation. Something clearly isn't working despite costing us a fortune.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15341313
Mean while the Swiss have just negotiated their own deal with China on trade.
rudecherub said:
Mean while the Swiss have just negotiated their own deal with China on trade.
The Swiss are Europe's parasite. Build a wall around them and see how they get on! If they think it's clever getting in bed with China then good riddance. I'm sure every Chinaman aspires to a cuckoo clock and an extra bar of Toblerone...Sonic said:
Just saw this on facebook which made me think of this thread 
Is the one on the right free German milk? The one on the left also misses out the processing and retail costs. It also seems to have different figures to those quoted here...there's definitely something awry with the numbers I reckon.
Edited to add...at 100k a year loss (for the farmer producing 20k litres a day), or probably 400k a yr according to the picture above, how does the farmer fund it? One would imagine banks would be unlikely to help with such a business model. And after 10yrs the farmer would be 1m-4m in debt??
Edited by Murph7355 on Friday 13th July 10:00
Murph7355 said:
Edited to add...at 100k a year loss (for the farmer producing 20k litres a day), or probably 400k a yr according to the picture above, how does the farmer fund it? One would imagine banks would be unlikely to help with such a business model. And after 10yrs the farmer would be 1m-4m in debt?
How?Through subsidies and the selling of crops/animals mainly.
wormburner said:
That's missing a line for 'retail cost'. If this argument is going to be taken seriously, it needs to be more rigorously presented than that.
The difference is, if the supermarkets aren't making enough money from any particular line of stock, they won't hesitate to put up the price, as they have been doing relentlessly for the past couple of years. The farmers can't do that.What would the farming types suggest we the consumer's do then? Should we start boycotting certain supermarket milk etc.
A friend of mine is a dairy farmer (large herd big'ish farm) & some years they make a fortune, other years a huge loss.
I consume gallons of the stuff
maybe we should develop an engine that runs on the stuff or re-engineer cows to produce diesel 
A friend of mine is a dairy farmer (large herd big'ish farm) & some years they make a fortune, other years a huge loss.
I consume gallons of the stuff
maybe we should develop an engine that runs on the stuff or re-engineer cows to produce diesel king arthur said:
wormburner said:
That's missing a line for 'retail cost'. If this argument is going to be taken seriously, it needs to be more rigorously presented than that.
The difference is, if the supermarkets aren't making enough money from any particular line of stock, they won't hesitate to put up the price, as they have been doing relentlessly for the past couple of years. The farmers can't do that.What practical action are the farmers taking to combat this situation? Or are they going quietly into the night, but for some moaning?
Relying on the public to fight this battle is not the way forward. All we care about (on aggregate) is price and convenience. The way we get that is through the supermarkets screwing the farmers on our behalf.
The answer to the farmers' problem, if there is one, is not relying on public outcry, because there won't be any.
wormburner said:
That is very simply put, but ignores the constant price wars between the supermarkets. It is fine for us to resent the supermarkets, but they make us as consumers richer.
The so called supermarket price war is mainly a product of marketing. As a recent BBC documentary pointed out, if there's a price war how come profits have increased at all four main supermarket chains in the last year?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff