Public sector watch
Discussion
FiF
It's a free market. People are able to apply for jobs on both private and Public sectors. So I don't understand the petty bickering about pay and conditions in one sector are "better" or "worse" than in the other. If one thinks the private sector is great and bankers get unmerited bonuses, STFU and apply to be a banker. Similarly if one thinks that Public sector pensions and working conditions are great then, by all means, apply for a job in the Public Sector.
I've worked in both - it's "swings and roundabouts", "win some, lose some".
It's a free market. People are able to apply for jobs on both private and Public sectors. So I don't understand the petty bickering about pay and conditions in one sector are "better" or "worse" than in the other. If one thinks the private sector is great and bankers get unmerited bonuses, STFU and apply to be a banker. Similarly if one thinks that Public sector pensions and working conditions are great then, by all means, apply for a job in the Public Sector.
I've worked in both - it's "swings and roundabouts", "win some, lose some".
PlankWithANailIn said:
Missmanagement of staff is way more costly than pension provision, at least you can plan for one sensibly, i.e. price it in from the start. If you can't afford it don't offer it, if you offered it then stick to your commitment.
I know this is personal to my family, but the compartmentalisation of the NHS such that it finds them training staff (at great expense) only for no-one to be prepared to pay them once trained, is beyond ridiculous. http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03yvf3r/W1A_...
The public sector in all its over worked underpaid glory
Fiction of course - but strange they portray them as complete buffoons, wonder where they get that idea from, the private sector of course
The public sector in all its over worked underpaid glory
Fiction of course - but strange they portray them as complete buffoons, wonder where they get that idea from, the private sector of course
5CylTurbo said:
How is that public sector related? 
Looks more like private sector failure to me!
5CylTurbo said:
More lessons can be learnt no doubt.
What are they there for if not to protect vulnerable kids?
Well other than complaining about their pay, pension, reading the Guardian ?
As soon as the abuse was discovered the mother was prosecuted and the child protected, do you expect social workers to visit every house in the country and check to see if a child is at risk?What are they there for if not to protect vulnerable kids?
Well other than complaining about their pay, pension, reading the Guardian ?
5CylTurbo said:
More lessons can be learnt no doubt.
What are they there for if not to protect vulnerable kids?
Well other than complaining about their pay, pension, reading the Guardian ?
I can't believe you're that stupid you think that social services have crystal balls and can know what goes on in every home. Still it's a good excuse to have a go at the public sector even if it's got nothing to do with it!What are they there for if not to protect vulnerable kids?
Well other than complaining about their pay, pension, reading the Guardian ?
That's private sector incompetence for you.
The biggest issue is that data/information is often silo'd or restricted for data protection reasons when it could and should be available to all relevant parties. That's not not just child protection but pretty much everything and across both public sector and private. They need better tools to do the job to find history but of course they cost money and then when 200 different agencies want input in the system design it gets watered down and then dropped as another IT failure.
5CylTurbo said:
NPI said:
Yep. We need to spend a LOT more money on Social Services.
Why? The more we spend the worse the services seem to get.Mid Staffs NHS wasn't underfunded. Just incompetent.
Clinical Management are sidelined in favour of lay managers
some 'Clinical Management' do not retain currency as clinicians - this is especially notable in Nursing Management - such as the trusts who consider it a 'failing' that a unit has it's Nurse Manager working regular clinical shifts . there is also a strong element of ' the peter principle ' at work in promotion of Nursing and AHP staff.
Some lay Managers used to be clinicians but they aren;t properly trained Managers either, at least they don;t " play dress up" like the 'Nurse' Managers ...
Some Lay managers have no understanding of the areas they are responsible or accountable for - and consequently they have little or no undersatanding of why their shop floor staff say things cannot be done as the managers want - however this isn;t (solely) inertia and intransigence as it is in other industries - show me another industry where the majority of the shop floor staff are graduates who are there becasue the law requires the job to be done by these graduates ...
mph1977 said:
Stafford was the most acute manifestation of a number of things wrong with the NHS
Clinical Management are sidelined in favour of lay managers
some 'Clinical Management' do not retain currency as clinicians - this is especially notable in Nursing Management - such as the trusts who consider it a 'failing' that a unit has it's Nurse Manager working regular clinical shifts . there is also a strong element of ' the peter principle ' at work in promotion of Nursing and AHP staff.
Some lay Managers used to be clinicians but they aren;t properly trained Managers either, at least they don;t " play dress up" like the 'Nurse' Managers ...
Some Lay managers have no understanding of the areas they are responsible or accountable for - and consequently they have little or no undersatanding of why their shop floor staff say things cannot be done as the managers want - however this isn;t (solely) inertia and intransigence as it is in other industries - show me another industry where the majority of the shop floor staff are graduates who are there becasue the law requires the job to be done by these graduates ...
Lack of money not being the issue, just crap uncaring staff.Clinical Management are sidelined in favour of lay managers
some 'Clinical Management' do not retain currency as clinicians - this is especially notable in Nursing Management - such as the trusts who consider it a 'failing' that a unit has it's Nurse Manager working regular clinical shifts . there is also a strong element of ' the peter principle ' at work in promotion of Nursing and AHP staff.
Some lay Managers used to be clinicians but they aren;t properly trained Managers either, at least they don;t " play dress up" like the 'Nurse' Managers ...
Some Lay managers have no understanding of the areas they are responsible or accountable for - and consequently they have little or no undersatanding of why their shop floor staff say things cannot be done as the managers want - however this isn;t (solely) inertia and intransigence as it is in other industries - show me another industry where the majority of the shop floor staff are graduates who are there becasue the law requires the job to be done by these graduates ...
eccles said:
Looks more like private sector failure to me!
Care to explain how?The woman was found guilty of admitted child neglect at a previous hearing in January (some 9 months before the child was found by accident by the Police). So did Social Services not think a visit was in order in those 9 months or would that be too obvious?
The woman was already flagged as a bad mother so God only knows what folk are talking about crystal balls for?
Ambulance service did their job, Cops did albeit with a huge dollop of good luck but Social Services yet again came up massively short.
But hey lessons will be learnt!
5CylTurbo said:
mph1977 said:
Stafford was the most acute manifestation of a number of things wrong with the NHS
Clinical Management are sidelined in favour of lay managers
some 'Clinical Management' do not retain currency as clinicians - this is especially notable in Nursing Management - such as the trusts who consider it a 'failing' that a unit has it's Nurse Manager working regular clinical shifts . there is also a strong element of ' the peter principle ' at work in promotion of Nursing and AHP staff.
Some lay Managers used to be clinicians but they aren;t properly trained Managers either, at least they don;t " play dress up" like the 'Nurse' Managers ...
Some Lay managers have no understanding of the areas they are responsible or accountable for - and consequently they have little or no undersatanding of why their shop floor staff say things cannot be done as the managers want - however this isn;t (solely) inertia and intransigence as it is in other industries - show me another industry where the majority of the shop floor staff are graduates who are there becasue the law requires the job to be done by these graduates ...
Lack of money not being the issue, just crap uncaring staff.Clinical Management are sidelined in favour of lay managers
some 'Clinical Management' do not retain currency as clinicians - this is especially notable in Nursing Management - such as the trusts who consider it a 'failing' that a unit has it's Nurse Manager working regular clinical shifts . there is also a strong element of ' the peter principle ' at work in promotion of Nursing and AHP staff.
Some lay Managers used to be clinicians but they aren;t properly trained Managers either, at least they don;t " play dress up" like the 'Nurse' Managers ...
Some Lay managers have no understanding of the areas they are responsible or accountable for - and consequently they have little or no undersatanding of why their shop floor staff say things cannot be done as the managers want - however this isn;t (solely) inertia and intransigence as it is in other industries - show me another industry where the majority of the shop floor staff are graduates who are there becasue the law requires the job to be done by these graduates ...
There are substantial numbers of Clinical Nurse Managers and (hospital based)Matrons ( plus Directors of Nursing and their Deputies and Assistants) who have not done an honest day's work on a ward or department in years if not decades ...
5CylTurbo said:
Mid Staffs NHS wasn't underfunded. Just incompetent.
What's that got to do with:5CylTurbo said:
5CylTurbo said:
Care to explain how?
The woman was found guilty of admitted child neglect at a previous hearing in January (some 9 months before the child was found by accident by the Police). So did Social Services not think a visit was in order in those 9 months or would that be too obvious?
The woman was already flagged as a bad mother so God only knows what folk are talking about crystal balls for?
Ambulance service did their job, Cops did albeit with a huge dollop of good luck but Social Services yet again came up massively short.
But hey lessons will be learnt!
The child was found in October last year. She pleaded guilty in January this year and was sentenced now, don't let that stop your rant on a subject you know only scant details about though.The woman was found guilty of admitted child neglect at a previous hearing in January (some 9 months before the child was found by accident by the Police). So did Social Services not think a visit was in order in those 9 months or would that be too obvious?
The woman was already flagged as a bad mother so God only knows what folk are talking about crystal balls for?
Ambulance service did their job, Cops did albeit with a huge dollop of good luck but Social Services yet again came up massively short.
But hey lessons will be learnt!
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