The 'No to the EU' campaign
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
It's nothing to to with racism, small mindedness or anything else of that ilk. It's to do with not wanting to be part of something so wrong.
I also believe that if we were to come even close to leaving it might encourage the exit campaigns in France and Italy too. We hear little of them ( I wonder why?) but they do exist.
The EU makes FIFA look upright and honest, how dare we risk allowing it to continue unchecked?
FIFA would have carried on unless someone who didn't give a sI also believe that if we were to come even close to leaving it might encourage the exit campaigns in France and Italy too. We hear little of them ( I wonder why?) but they do exist.
The EU makes FIFA look upright and honest, how dare we risk allowing it to continue unchecked?
t about football got involved. Nobody responsible for the EU wants to admit what a mess it has become because they'll be to blame for it. REALIST123 said:
I think you're right but it won't stop me from voting to leave.
Even if exit caused us short term harm, which I don't think it will to any extent, I would still vote to leave what is clearly an incompetent corrupt institution, and anyone with a conscience would IMO.
It's nothing to to with racism, small mindedness or anything else of that ilk. It's to do with not wanting to be part of something so wrong.
I also believe that if we were to come even close to leaving it might encourage the exit campaigns in France and Italy too. We hear little of them ( I wonder why?) but they do exist.
The EU makes FIFA look upright and honest, how dare we risk allowing it to continue unchecked?
this one million times over. if the bbc propaganda leading up to the vote is anything like their recent climate change crap prior to the paris climate conference i am definitely going to jail, as i will be kicking the utter sEven if exit caused us short term harm, which I don't think it will to any extent, I would still vote to leave what is clearly an incompetent corrupt institution, and anyone with a conscience would IMO.
It's nothing to to with racism, small mindedness or anything else of that ilk. It's to do with not wanting to be part of something so wrong.
I also believe that if we were to come even close to leaving it might encourage the exit campaigns in France and Italy too. We hear little of them ( I wonder why?) but they do exist.
The EU makes FIFA look upright and honest, how dare we risk allowing it to continue unchecked?
t out of whoever is responsible. i have had enough of them ,period.FiF said:
Harry H said:
As much as I'd like to stick two fingers up to the shambles in Brussels there is absolutely no hope of the UK electorate voting to come out of the EU I'm afraid. It just ain't gonna happen.
Once the date is set enough money as is necessary will be pumped into the media campaign to get the right answer of us all staying in. Media organisations especially the BBC will be bribed/ cajoled into to putting the right amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) as to what a Brexit will actually mean. Anyone that speaks for out will be labeled as "racist/ little Englanders and we'll mainly vote how the politicians want us too.
It's a shame but that's how it's gonna be. Once we're committed then the total union march will be unstoppable.
Anything else happening is just wishful thinking. It'll be a similar result to UKIP and the last GE all over again.
Fyi CMD has already signed off on the campaign spending limits during the crucial final weeks. The Remain campaign is apparently going to be allowed to spend 50% more than the leave campaign. Source is unfortunately the Fail, so there must be some devil in the details there. The sad thing is that if it's even half true is there anyone surprised by this possibility. Once the date is set enough money as is necessary will be pumped into the media campaign to get the right answer of us all staying in. Media organisations especially the BBC will be bribed/ cajoled into to putting the right amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt (FUD) as to what a Brexit will actually mean. Anyone that speaks for out will be labeled as "racist/ little Englanders and we'll mainly vote how the politicians want us too.
It's a shame but that's how it's gonna be. Once we're committed then the total union march will be unstoppable.
Anything else happening is just wishful thinking. It'll be a similar result to UKIP and the last GE all over again.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...
'Don't insult us, Prime Minister. I'm voting "out"... and I refuse to toe the line:' Former Europe Minister David Davis on the EU referendum:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3375083/...
A snippet: David Davis: The Prime Minister plainly wants the British people to decide to stay in the EU.
His problem is that the decision is about to be taken at a time when many of the EU’s chickens are coming home to roost. Even William Hague had to recognise this last week when he tried to shore up the pro-EU position. He had to admit that the EU is undemocratic, bureaucratic, and incompetent. He had to admit that the Schengen Treaty has been a disaster, its abandonment of national borders allowing the disastrous migration crisis that destroys the lives of people who flood over our borders in pursuit of misguided hopes.
The truth is we are now being asked to give up control of our own future to exercise an influence we no longer have in the interest of an institution that may be beyond reform. As a former Europe Minister, it pains me to say that I have reached a tipping point and concluded that it is in both our best interests and the EU’s best interests that we seek our future in the wider world.
All of this is going to crystallise next year. This would be difficult enough, but the last year has demonstrated that it is tangled up in issues such as Syria and immigration, issues with an electoral potency not often shown by the dry complexities of Europe.
The case for the EU is weakening by the day, and the case for exit, for freeing our nation to achieve its full potential in the world, is increasing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3375083/...
A snippet: David Davis: The Prime Minister plainly wants the British people to decide to stay in the EU.
His problem is that the decision is about to be taken at a time when many of the EU’s chickens are coming home to roost. Even William Hague had to recognise this last week when he tried to shore up the pro-EU position. He had to admit that the EU is undemocratic, bureaucratic, and incompetent. He had to admit that the Schengen Treaty has been a disaster, its abandonment of national borders allowing the disastrous migration crisis that destroys the lives of people who flood over our borders in pursuit of misguided hopes.
The truth is we are now being asked to give up control of our own future to exercise an influence we no longer have in the interest of an institution that may be beyond reform. As a former Europe Minister, it pains me to say that I have reached a tipping point and concluded that it is in both our best interests and the EU’s best interests that we seek our future in the wider world.
All of this is going to crystallise next year. This would be difficult enough, but the last year has demonstrated that it is tangled up in issues such as Syria and immigration, issues with an electoral potency not often shown by the dry complexities of Europe.
The case for the EU is weakening by the day, and the case for exit, for freeing our nation to achieve its full potential in the world, is increasing.
CMD has today announced he'll allow the cabinet to campaign how they like for the referendum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
On the face of it, a sensible move IMO, but does this signal a bit of a waver in the PM's resolve?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
On the face of it, a sensible move IMO, but does this signal a bit of a waver in the PM's resolve?
Well I'm voting to get out of it, atleast I will be able to hold my head up in a few years time knowing I didn't vote for this st
Not that anyone will give a rats but it will make me feel better as all our rights and what's left of the country that started
Modern democracy turn to commy no say destruction of our human rights
t Not that anyone will give a rats but it will make me feel better as all our rights and what's left of the country that started
Modern democracy turn to commy no say destruction of our human rights
davepoth said:
CMD has today announced he'll allow the cabinet to campaign how they like for the referendum.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
On the face of it, a sensible move IMO, but does this signal a bit of a waver in the PM's resolve?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendu...
On the face of it, a sensible move IMO, but does this signal a bit of a waver in the PM's resolve?
Although the PM is undeniably in favour of the EU, could he be spinelessly career-driven enough to campaign to leave if he knows there's simply no way he can be on the winning side by campaigning to stay.
Just a thought, I really really can't imagine it.
As always Hannan right on target
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...
Some gems within the linked piece
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...
Some gems within the linked piece
Daniel Hannan said:
The PM has abandoned most of his own declared aims for the sake of rushing through a referendum this year, before the eurozone or migration crises take a turn for the worse.
He had promised to opt out of EU employment laws and social policies; to repatriate control of criminal justice; to curb the European Court; to disapply the Charter of Fundamental Rights; to recover control of who could settle in the UK. All these aims have now been dropped, and we’re hurtling towards a referendum this summer on the basis of essentially optical changes.
David Cameron is emulating Harold Wilson, and you can see why. The canny Yorkshireman was also elected promising “better terms”. He, too, ended up asking for almost nothing. Yet, in 1975, he was able to secure a two-to-one vote to remain in, based largely on people’s fear of change.
He had promised to opt out of EU employment laws and social policies; to repatriate control of criminal justice; to curb the European Court; to disapply the Charter of Fundamental Rights; to recover control of who could settle in the UK. All these aims have now been dropped, and we’re hurtling towards a referendum this summer on the basis of essentially optical changes.
David Cameron is emulating Harold Wilson, and you can see why. The canny Yorkshireman was also elected promising “better terms”. He, too, ended up asking for almost nothing. Yet, in 1975, he was able to secure a two-to-one vote to remain in, based largely on people’s fear of change.
Daniel Hannan said:
Until a couple of years ago, Eurocrats liked to boast of two great achievements: the euro and the border-free area. It is now clear that both were fair-weather schemes.
Daniel Hannan said:
In 2011, David Cameron secured, in the clearest language lawyers could devise, a written guarantee that Britain wouldn’t be required to bail out the euro. He made that opt-out a plank of last year’s general election campaign. Yet, a month after the poll, he was obliged to pledge £850 million to bail out Greece. And then, three months after that, he was obliged to pay the balance of the £1.7 billion “prosperity surcharge” that he had previously described as “completely unacceptable”. How, given this record, can we trust any assurance that Britain won’t continue to be gouged?
It’s worth putting these sums in context. During the lifetime of the last Parliament, all the cuts put together saved £36 billion. Over the same period, we gave the EU £87 billion. In other words, our tribute to Brussels wiped out all our domestic austerity programme twice over.
It’s worth putting these sums in context. During the lifetime of the last Parliament, all the cuts put together saved £36 billion. Over the same period, we gave the EU £87 billion. In other words, our tribute to Brussels wiped out all our domestic austerity programme twice over.
Daniel Hannan said:
Ask yourself this. If the EU can’t make meaningful concessions when its second largest economy is about to vote on withdrawal, when will it ever be amenable to change?
I'm becoming more convinced that an out vote is the way forward. Was concerned about the contribution levels needed to stay as per Norway in EEA trading zone but Guardian estimate that to be c2.5-3bn per year. Yes ok we'd have no say in the trading zone rules but the delta on net contribution would be significant on an annual basis
Mannginger said:
I'm becoming more convinced that an out vote is the way forward. Was concerned about the contribution levels needed to stay as per Norway in EEA trading zone but Guardian estimate that to be c2.5-3bn per year. Yes ok we'd have no say in the trading zone rules but the delta on net contribution would be significant on an annual basis
I hear that most of what Norway pay is voluntary. IIRC EEA is mean't to be a staging post before joining the EU. The politicians want to join, the people do not (and I assume have some clout in some way, perhaps there was a referendum on it?). So they're in a kind of deadlock, won't be joining but the EUphile politicians are happy to write large cheques that they don't have to.FiF said:
As always Hannan right on target
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...
Some gems within the linked piece
Similar to his speech that appeared on YouTube yesterday...http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eurefer...
Some gems within the linked piece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcWGycNyb_Q
Esseesse said:
I hear that most of what Norway pay is voluntary. IIRC EEA is mean't to be a staging post before joining the EU. The politicians want to join, the people do not (and I assume have some clout in some way, perhaps there was a referendum on it?). So they're in a kind of deadlock, won't be joining but the EUphile politicians are happy to write large cheques that they don't have to.
Norway voted 53.5% for staying out of the EU a few years back. They'd be mental to join now!Mannginger said:
I'm becoming more convinced that an out vote is the way forward. Was concerned about the contribution levels needed to stay as per Norway in EEA trading zone but Guardian estimate that to be c2.5-3bn per year. Yes ok we'd have no say in the trading zone rules but the delta on net contribution would be significant on an annual basis
There was another biased beeb thing this morning, Sarah Montague again as it happens, Chukka Umunna vs Nigel Lawson.Now I don't think Nigella's father is a particularly erudite proponent of Brexit these days, possibly due to age, but Umunna and the supposedly independent BBC euphile clone Montague hectored and interrupted Lawson on the point of what would happen after Brexit and could he name any Non-EU nation country that traded with the EU without conforming to the rules. Of course he couldn't, they miss the point deliberately. If you wish to trade with any nation then you have to obey the rules of that market.
As for having to contribute funds, voluntary contributions are very different from enforced ones, particularly where the recipient keeps gouging you for more, even though you have a say, but effectively don't in the case of the UK and the EU. Those two idiots need to read Flexcit, which is in reality the only written down pathway, for sure the plan after staying in isn't written down. Staying in is like sitting on a bus, the passenger list including a load of unsavoury oiks, where you are not quite sure where the bus is going, but the one thing you're damn sure of is that you don't want to go to the place on the destination board. Blatantly nicking Hannan's point, you'd be barking mad to stay on board whilst continuing paying for a massive share of the fares for everyone else.
Esseesse said:
I hear that most of what Norway pay is voluntary. IIRC EEA is mean't to be a staging post before joining the EU. The politicians want to join, the people do not (and I assume have some clout in some way, perhaps there was a referendum on it?). So they're in a kind of deadlock, won't be joining but the EUphile politicians are happy to write large cheques that they don't have to.
They've had 2 referenda in Norway to join the EU (1972 and 1994). Both sensibly rejected by the public.However, the political class still shafted the country by signing them up to the European Economic Area. This costs them over €300 million a year in fees and they have to swallow the entire load of the EU's endless BS regulations that relate to the internal market. Since they're not technically a member, they get no representation in the EU either. Not that that would make any difference in reality.
Point is that we don't want to end up like them if we "leave" the EU.
Well there you had it from Cameron on Andrew Marr's show, that Brexit is "the wrong answer" and he has no plans on what to do if the public votes for leave. But he won't resign.
So all his words that if he can't get the reform he wants he could campaign to leave are just that, words, as empty as he is of ideas. He's blatantly playing exactly the same game plan Wilson did in 75. So devoid of ideas can't even be original there.
So all his words that if he can't get the reform he wants he could campaign to leave are just that, words, as empty as he is of ideas. He's blatantly playing exactly the same game plan Wilson did in 75. So devoid of ideas can't even be original there.
FiF said:
Well there you had it from Cameron on Andrew Marr's show, that Brexit is "the wrong answer" and he has no plans on what to do if the public votes for leave. But he won't resign.
So all his words that if he can't get the reform he wants he could campaign to leave are just that, words, as empty as he is of ideas. He's blatantly playing exactly the same game plan Wilson did in 75. So devoid of ideas can't even be original there.
So all his words that if he can't get the reform he wants he could campaign to leave are just that, words, as empty as he is of ideas. He's blatantly playing exactly the same game plan Wilson did in 75. So devoid of ideas can't even be original there.
Absolutely. And just as with Wilson the biggest threat to a no vote is the fear and ignorance of the voters.
Let's hope that, for once, the electorate thinks with its head and mans up.
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