Meanwhile, In Syria

[Transmitter Man]

Art,

It is and never was a secular country. That's just what he told the outside world.

Out of 250 parliamentary seats, all are Alawi or Shia with only one Kurdish and three communist.

With 75% of the population Sunni that maybe tells you something about democracy, freedom and secularism in Syria.

The few Sunni's who were 'on-side' were those fed by the assad regime with lucrative contracts. Most of these have now fled to Lebanon where they either own properties or are more than able to afford the high rents being charged, while others have been wounded or killed in the fighting.

Phil

[Jimbeaux]

Tartan Pixie said:

Jimbeaux said:

Well, to be specific, many were not there "for generations" but rather hoarded into the area. As to opportunity.....let's visit this oh-so-un-PC point.....The "brother nations" surrounding the "Palestinians" are very happy to go on about their oppressed brothers but don't seem concerned enough to open their borders to them and collectively absorb what would be a relatively small number. Instead, they are happy to leave them in what is a small ghetto and harp on about how bad off they are because it serves those nations' purpose fine as it is thank you very much. On top of that, the "evil West" gives more money to this group than their "brothers" combined. Just sayin'. Off my soap box as well.

So, you're quite OK with 4 million people being 'hoarded' out of their homes and pushed in to ever decreasing parts of their territory. The only problem you see here is the immigration policies of neighboring countries. Implying that you either think all Palestinians would move to Jordan and Egypt if they were only given a chance, or that they should just be displaced by force?

Wow. Just. Wow.

For a start, even a portion of 4 million Palestinians is not a 'relatively small number' of people to integrate in to Jordan's population of 6 million. I mean have you seen the fuss that's been kicked up over a couple of Romanians and their dog possibly maybe coming to Britain soon? Or do you think a couple of million Palestinians will integrate well just because they're all muslims?

Next, the borders have been opened several times over the last decade and there are also tunnels running under the Egyptian border. Despite this the Palestinians haven't tried to leave - they went and did some shopping then went home again. Why? Because it's their home and they will stand up for it just like you or I would do for our homes. Your image of Palestinians being these rootless people is detached from reality.

Lastly your 'evil west' wording is pure fox news. If you think we are cynical about Obama and Cameron you should hear the swear words when a Palestinian is having a rant about Hamas or the Palestinian Authority. The banner waving 'kill all Americans' types so beloved of news reports are no more representative of your average West Bank resident than the Westboro Baptist church are a good representation of Americans.

For the most part Palestinian women are educated and don't wear the Niqab, the culture is far closer to Lebanese tolerance than Saudi puritanism. Food has a Mediterranean feel with interesting herbs, though it's possible to get a bit sick of felafel and spiced tea. They sing, they dance, they play games at the internet cafe, they are people like you and I.

Even as a white Brit with very little arabic I found the West Bank to be quite a friendly place. With the exception of one angry taxi driver in Bethlehem I found people to be well versed in the difference between British people and the British government, honestly you're likely to receive more racism in 2 hours in Bradford than I received in two weeks in Palestine.

I hope that cut through some of the media spin on this issue and didn't come across too much as having a go at you.

Edited by Tartan Pixie on Saturday 2nd February 00:09

First of all, you can be just as much a victim of media spin, it always works both ways. Next, many of these people of which you speak did not have this as their home to begin with. There are volumes on this right here on PH, therefore I am not going to elaborate; take a day or so and delve into PH's library. It is quite clear that these people have been very good at killing one another for centuries. I am all for taking away the scapegoat distraction of Israel. Give them back what they think is their land and let them go back to their normal behavior. BTW, one good way of losing said land in the first place is to attack someone and lose the fight.

Edited by Jimbeaux on Monday 4th February 15:00

[Transmitter Man]

"one good way of losing said land in the first place is to attack someone and lose the fight."

Could not of put it better myself.

Phil

[Art0ir]

Ceasefire on the cards? Debka is sometimes hit and miss but when they get it right it's spot on.

http://debka.com/article/22791/Assad-Pulls-Ahead-i...

[Mermaid]

Art0ir said:

Ceasefire on the cards? Debka is sometimes hit and miss but when they get it right it's spot on.

http://debka.com/article/22791/Assad-Pulls-Ahead-i...

That's good news, and at least it stops the killing in the meantime.

[Art0ir]

Mermaid said:

Art0ir said:

Ceasefire on the cards? Debka is sometimes hit and miss but when they get it right it's spot on.

http://debka.com/article/22791/Assad-Pulls-Ahead-i...

That's good news, and at least it stops the killing in the meantime.

Perhaps not

[Mermaid]

Art0ir said:

Perhaps not

I hope Russia & China step up support for Syria.


"We are examining and developing ways to accelerate the transition the Syrian people seek and deserve," - so is this the Sunni's supported by Saudi Arabia?

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 27th February 21:05

[Transmitter Man]

Hey Art,

Here's a better vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xic5dquE-zU&sns...

A former captain in the SAA that decided to jump ship and fight for the other side.

Phil

[Art0ir]

Transmitter Man said:

Hey Art,

Here's a better vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xic5dquE-zU&sns...

A former captain in the SAA that decided to jump ship and fight for the other side.

Phil

Sorry Phil, the only thing I caught in that video was Allah Akbar?

Mermaid said:

I hope Russia & China step up support for Syria.


"We are examining and developing ways to accelerate the transition the Syrian people seek and deserve," - so is this the Sunni's supported by Saudi Arabia?

Edited by Mermaid on Wednesday 27th February 21:05

Indeed, caught buying arms in Croatia for them only a day ago.

[Elroy Blue]

Transmitter Man said:

Hey Art,

Here's a better vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xic5dquE-zU&sns...

A former captain in the SAA that decided to jump ship and fight for the other side.

Phil

That video says it all for me. A half built housing estate, now being fought over by two sides whose last thought is for the people of the country.

[Transmitter Man]

Blue,

I fear you're not speaking for the guy with the laser guided missile.

He is Syrian and just wants his country back.

Phil

[Mermaid]

Delusional? Hague or Assad?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21647014

[MrBrightSi]

Mermaid said:

Delusional? Hague or Assad?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21647014

This stuff worries me, surely the term revolution shows exactly what these things are, i wonder what charismatic rebel leader will become the next genocidal maniac?

[Mermaid]

MrBrightSi said:

This stuff worries me, surely the term revolution shows exactly what these things are, i wonder what charismatic rebel leader will become the next genocidal maniac?

More arms to sell later on.

"Britain cannot rule out providing arms to the Syrian opposition in the future, Foreign Secretary William Hague says.

The situation in Syria now is "too dangerous to the peace and security of that entire region, and thereby to the world, to ignore it", he said"


Too dangerous for the region? Many in the region have been deeply involved in stoking it up for a while..

[tom2019]

Any person with half a brain knows our government doesn't give two sts about the Syrian people.

I'm trying to think what we could possibly gain by arming these people that claim to be liberationists.

How would we benefit from in-stability in that region?

Does anyone know how we are going to benefit?

The way I see it we're potentially arming the people that hate us -its a pretty big risk isn't it , so what are we going to gain. If the succeed do you think they'll welcome us with open arms ? So I'm thinking there's some reasoning to this can anyone fill me in?

[Caulkhead]

tom2019 said:

Any person with half a brain knows our government doesn't give two sts about the Syrian people.

I'm trying to think what we could possibly gain by arming these people that claim to be liberationists.

How would we benefit from in-stability in that region?

Does anyone know how we are going to benefit?

The way I see it we're potentially arming the people that hate us -its a pretty big risk isn't it , so what are we going to gain. If the succeed do you think they'll welcome us with open arms ? So I'm thinking there's some reasoning to this can anyone fill me in?

Put simply, Syria is strategically placed and has oil. It's current government is heavily influenced by Russia. If that government were deposed, a new ruling power would be open to new alliances and even if hard-line muslim, they would be more likely to deal with us than Russia after the Chechen issues.

[Art0ir]

tom2019 said:

Any person with half a brain knows our government doesn't give two sts about the Syrian people.

I'm trying to think what we could possibly gain by arming these people that claim to be liberationists.

How would we benefit from in-stability in that region?

Does anyone know how we are going to benefit?

The way I see it we're potentially arming the people that hate us -its a pretty big risk isn't it , so what are we going to gain. If the succeed do you think they'll welcome us with open arms ? So I'm thinking there's some reasoning to this can anyone fill me in?

Iran.

The more cynical would look to how the militants in North Africa are running around with weapons we bought and gave to the Libyan Jihadists rebels and wonder whether Eisenhower had it spot on when he spoke of the Military-Industrial Complex and perpetual warfare.

[Mermaid]

tom2019 said:

The way I see it we're potentially arming the people that hate us -its a pretty big risk isn't it , so what are we going to gain. If the succeed do you think they'll welcome us with open arms ? So I'm thinking there's some reasoning to this can anyone fill me in?

It would focus our attention if Syria started an arms/terrorist campaign in the UK.......oh wait a minute that is not cricket.

[Elroy Blue]

William Hague.."Syria is becoming breeding ground for Al Queda"

Willam Hague.."Here's some armoured vehicles and body armour"

Bloody ludicrous.

[Spiritual_Beggar]

Art0ir said:

Iran.

The more cynical would look to how the militants in North Africa are running around with weapons we bought and gave to the Libyan Jihadists rebels and wonder whether Eisenhower had it spot on when he spoke of the Military-Industrial Complex and perpetual warfare.

The lyrics to Ocean Colour Scene's 'Profit in Peace' spring to mind.