Israeli

[Pappa Lurve]

Countdown said:

Pappa Lurve said:

I suggest that is clear when one looks at two factors.... where the settlements are and factor in the ones Israel emptied several years ago. You also need to consider the internal politics as I have already explained. But, its easier to take a simplistic view as demonstrated by your assumption the all Israelis share a fundamental view.

I don't think all Israelis share the same view and apologies if I gave that impression. I think people such as Gideon Levy and btselem are doing an excellent job under difficult circumstances. However Israel is a democracy and the actions of the Govt should (in theory) reflect the wishes of the people. "Internal politics" is a bit of a "cop out" I'm afraid. Would you be willing to excuse Hamas's actions as "internal politics"?


"This is commander. Anything that's mobile, that moves in the zone, even if it's a three-year-old, needs to be killed. Over."

That's a quote from the Israeli officer who killed a12 year old schoolgirl.

Evidence and context please?

And I very clearly drew a line between Hamas and the people on the whole precisely because there is a difference. And democracy reflect the wishes of the people? OK... I refer you to poll tax (now council tax), most of the 1930's, the Iraq wars, and our present international aid budget. All deeply unpopular. There is no difference at all.

[Lost soul]

AW111 said:

Lost soul said:

but I have backed it up with reason

Yes I am pro Israel , no Israeli has ever tried to blow me up yet Palestinians have .

No Jew has set off bombs in London yet muslims have

Not trolling, but when have Palestinians tried to blow you up?

Jerusalem around 2001-2002 we got tangled up in a car bomb which went off quite close to where we were

[W124]

I've nearly been blown up by Irishmen several times. Once very nearly. This has no bearing on how I see the political situation in Northern Ireland. I was born in Dublin by the way - yet I come down on neither side.

Edited because I can no longer write coherently.

Edited by W124 on Tuesday 8th July 09:00

[skyrover]

Six Israeli's arrested under suspicion of the murder of Palestinian teenager

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/israe...

[Lost soul]

skyrover said:

Six Israeli's arrested under suspicion of the murder of Palestinian teenager

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/israe...

I am sure the Palestinian police are working feverishly to find the killers of the 3 boys

[franki68]

Lost soul said:

I am sure the Palestinian police are working feverishly to find the killers of the 3 boys

They are,they need them to model for the statues they are making.

[franki68]

Countdown said:

Cracking logic.

Some bloke down the pub gave me a dirty look therefore it's my inalienable right to kick seven bells out of my neighbour.

Out of interest, if I kick my neighbour out of his house and he retaliates, does that make him a terrorist?

Did he kick you out of his house first ? And what if it's not just him ,but all his friends who have nothing to do with the house who are attacking you?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Lost soul said:

skyrover said:

Six Israeli's arrested under suspicion of the murder of Palestinian teenager

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/israe...

I am sure the Palestinian police are working feverishly to find the killers of the 3 boys

Precisely. That's the big difference. The Israelis' for all their faults, of which there are many, fundamentally have some kind of rule of law and lines they won't cross. They may occasionally kill children, but the don't actively want to. Unlike the Palestinians, for whom all Jews are legitimate targets.

[AW111]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Precisely. That's the big difference. The Israelis' for all their faults, of which there are many, fundamentally have some kind of rule of law and lines they won't cross. They may occasionally kill children, but the don't actively want to. Unlike the Palestinians, for whom all Jews are legitimate targets.

Can we amend it to some Palestinians, please?
To say "the Palestinians" presumes that every single one is as mad as the hard core terrorists, which is like saying "all Jews are Zionist thugs".

[Lost soul]

AW111 said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Precisely. That's the big difference. The Israelis' for all their faults, of which there are many, fundamentally have some kind of rule of law and lines they won't cross. They may occasionally kill children, but the don't actively want to. Unlike the Palestinians, for whom all Jews are legitimate targets.

Can we amend it to some Palestinians, please?
To say "the Palestinians" presumes that every single one is as mad as the hard core terrorists, which is like saying "all Jews are Zionist thugs".

I think if you took a poll in Palestine the vast majority would demand the destruction of Israel

[Lost soul]

What is never publicised are stories like this

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-hospital-...

[audidoody]

Countdown said:

Cracking logic.

Some bloke down the pub gave me a dirty look therefore it's my inalienable right to kick seven bells out of my neighbour.

Out of interest, if I kick my neighbour out of his house and he retaliates, does that make him a terrorist?

Only if he tried to kick you out of your house first but miscalculated because when he tried to, you won.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Lost soul said:

What is never publicised are stories like this

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-hospital-...

You think this might be used as an opportunity for Hamas to have some dialogue beyond the destruction of Israel. But you know what they say about the Palestinians, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

[Lost soul]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Lost soul said:

What is never publicised are stories like this

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-hospital-...

You think this might be used as an opportunity for Hamas to have some dialogue beyond the destruction of Israel. But you know what they say about the Palestinians, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Exactly , they are so caught up in hatred they can not see the wood for the trees

[JuniorD]

Lost soul said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Lost soul said:

What is never publicised are stories like this

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-hospital-...

You think this might be used as an opportunity for Hamas to have some dialogue beyond the destruction of Israel. But you know what they say about the Palestinians, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Exactly , they thats are so caught up in hatred they can not see the wood for the trees

That story is utterly trivial in the scheme of things. If it's best example of a "IsraeliI regime is really nice actually" story you can dig up, you really are struggling.

It really does nothing to counter the accounts collected by Breaking the Silence.

[Lost soul]

JuniorD said:

Lost soul said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Lost soul said:

What is never publicised are stories like this

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Israeli-hospital-...

You think this might be used as an opportunity for Hamas to have some dialogue beyond the destruction of Israel. But you know what they say about the Palestinians, they never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

Exactly , they thats are so caught up in hatred they can not see the wood for the trees

That story is utterly trivial in the scheme of things. If it's best example of a "IsraeliI regime is really nice actually" story you can dig up, you really are struggling.

It really does nothing to counter the accounts collected by Breaking the Silence.

You have totally missed the point haven't you

[FredClogs]

Things are only going to get worse in Israel over the coming generations, the birth rate amongst the Haredi othordox Jews is nearly 3 times the (more liberal) second/third generation Jewish population. The people who's parents and grandparents moved to Israel from Europe and Russia when it was created and the children of Americans and Europeans who went in the 70s are leaving in large numbers. I would say by 2025 Israel (if it still exists) will be a complete theological democracy, perhaps even a theocracy and with that will come a st storm beyond all proportion to what's going on now...

I might be wrong.

[W124]

What of the birth rate of the Palestinians? A one state solution will surely end in a situation similar to South Africa. A two state solution looks unworkable from here and, eventually, will go in the same direction.

[W124]

What of the birth rate of the Palestinians? A one state solution will surely end in a situation similar to South Africa. A two state solution looks unworkable from here and, eventually, will go in the same direction.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

FredClogs said:

Things are only going to get worse in Israel over the coming generations, the birth rate amongst the Haredi othordox Jews is nearly 3 times the (more liberal) second/third generation Jewish population. The people who's parents and grandparents moved to Israel from Europe and Russia when it was created and the children of Americans and Europeans who went in the 70s are leaving in large numbers. I would say by 2025 Israel (if it still exists) will be a complete theological democracy, perhaps even a theocracy and with that will come a st storm beyond all proportion to what's going on now...

I might be wrong.

You could well be right. It's entirely possible that by 2025 Israel with be a complete hellhole dominated by orthodox religion with no real freedom and completely intolerant of everybody else's religious views.

In which case it'll fit right in with the Arab world.