No Charges over G20 man's death
Discussion
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Perceptions. You summed it up.
Reality. Police officers accused will face far higher levels of investigation and money being spent to secure conviction. CPS will charge and prosecute when in the same circumstances a member of the public wouldn't be prosecuted.
No ip no prosecution. Sgt Smellie had an IP who refused to turn up. Any other case would have been dropped there and then.
Police officers are treated far more harshly when investigated and when prosecuted and held to a far higher standard.
I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with people not realising that or suggesting otherwise.
I accept i am restrained by my perceptions, as we all are.Reality. Police officers accused will face far higher levels of investigation and money being spent to secure conviction. CPS will charge and prosecute when in the same circumstances a member of the public wouldn't be prosecuted.
No ip no prosecution. Sgt Smellie had an IP who refused to turn up. Any other case would have been dropped there and then.
Police officers are treated far more harshly when investigated and when prosecuted and held to a far higher standard.
I don't have a problem with that. I do have a problem with people not realising that or suggesting otherwise.
Your perception of someone loitering would may well be totally different to mine for example as you have much more experience of what people are actually up to, when loitering.
You do not however ,have more experience than me when it come to my life experiences and how my perceptions have been altered by my experiences.
If the government want to change my perceptions, they will have to prove themselves to be as squeaky clean as i am supposed to be, and that IMO will never happen!
For what it's worth, i do accept that some coppers do get treated as an example but that does not change my over all perception, be it right or wrong
Hedders said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Please don't continue you are really not helping your cause.
That my freind, is hearsay.Happy?
Edited by Hedders on Sunday 25th July 11:07
Whether you choose or not to accept the burdens or proof needed in court is only a decision you can make.
Hedders said:
I accept i am restrained by my perceptions, as we all are.
But you need to open to what people with experience and knowledge are saying. There's a common theme amongst the current and retired police officers on here when it comes to police investigation. One that is of how great the depth of investigation is when police officers are involved. There is much evidence of this even within the media which cares not about accurate reporting (shock horror!). The recent case mentioned against Sgt Smellie - do you think that utter farse would have gone near a criminal court had it not been for the accused being a police officer?
It's a tragic thing with police discipline and complaints that even though justice is done to more of a degree than ever, it seems that it 'seeing to be done' is at an all time low. I'd point out the irony if it weren't for the seriousness of it.
ferrari spider said:
Flintstone said:
Can't say I've ever heard of the saying you've mentioned either. Why would one hate a game? A player, I could see that. A fan of a team might intensely dislike a player from the opposition but surely if he were such a fan of his own team, to the point where he hated a player from another, he'd be quite fond of them game itself? No, doen't scan. In fact the more I think about it I'm convinced that there can be no such saying, it just doesn't make sense. Downright daft really. Verbiage.
Huh! So you never have heard the saying. "Dont hate the player hate the game"??
te dub/chant song apparently favoured by wannabee gangsters. On both counts I'm rather pleased not to have heard it.ferrari spider said:
man you need to get out more.
You base this upon what, exactly? I've tried following your chain of logic but ummmm, there doesn't appear to be one.ferrari spider said:
Your not an old fart QC or judge by any chance are you 
My 'what' isn't....is not a......sorry but that sentence of yours just doesn't make sense. Tell what it is of mine that you're asking about and maybe we can get somewhere with it.ferrari spider said:
Have you tried researching the saying? But of course you haven't, you dont even read all the comments. Only extracts that fit your agenda
As opposed to your own posts? My irony-o-meter peaked there.
Edited by ferrari spider on Saturday 24th July 23:17
Some interesting 'steering' of the pathologist came out in yesterdays interview.
A hint of police corruption too me thinks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/12/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates):
Patel said DS Crampton and three other police officers were present during the postmortem, and he was asked to "rule out" injuries consistent with an assault at the G20 protests. He said the officers gave him "additional information" about the circumstances of the death. They told him there was "a lot of broken glass bottles and a lot of protesters were using sticks and there were a lot of sticks around the body where it was found".
Then the video came out..
A hint of police corruption too me thinks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/12/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates):
Patel said DS Crampton and three other police officers were present during the postmortem, and he was asked to "rule out" injuries consistent with an assault at the G20 protests. He said the officers gave him "additional information" about the circumstances of the death. They told him there was "a lot of broken glass bottles and a lot of protesters were using sticks and there were a lot of sticks around the body where it was found".
Then the video came out..
Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 13th April 11:17
joe_90 said:
Some interesting 'steering' of the pathologist came out in yesterdays interview.
A hint of police corruption too me thinks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/12/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates):
Patel said DS Crampton and three other police officers were present during the postmortem, and he was asked to "rule out" injuries consistent with an assault at the G20 protests. He said the officers gave him "additional information" about the circumstances of the death. They told him there was "a lot of broken glass bottles and a lot of protesters were using sticks and there were a lot of sticks around the body where it was found".
Then the video came out..
Police officers attending a PM??
Good lord, whatever next
A hint of police corruption too me thinks (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/apr/12/ian-tomlinson-inquest-live-updates):
Patel said DS Crampton and three other police officers were present during the postmortem, and he was asked to "rule out" injuries consistent with an assault at the G20 protests. He said the officers gave him "additional information" about the circumstances of the death. They told him there was "a lot of broken glass bottles and a lot of protesters were using sticks and there were a lot of sticks around the body where it was found".
Then the video came out..
Police officers attending a PM??
Good lord, whatever next
Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 13th April 11:17
joe_90 said:
Well im sure after the budget cuts, 1 will attend instead of 4, Im sure 4 is not a normal amount (which is what they said on the news) for one random dead drunk guy on the street.
Anyways.. the point (as you can see) is the steering..
What steering. Its all heresay and could be led.It's irrelevant imho. It all is. Tomlinson was a dead man walking the plods push may or may not have contributed to his death in some small way but they arent responsible.Anyways.. the point (as you can see) is the steering..
.Tallbut Buxomly said:
What steering. Its all heresay and could be led.It's irrelevant imho. It all is. Tomlinson was a dead man walking the plods push may or may not have contributed to his death in some small way but they arent responsible.
I really don't understand this comment. If he hadn't been pushed in the manner that he was do you think he would have spontaneously died?Most of us accept that the Police have a very difficult job, but there's something about the whole Tomlinson thing that leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth.
paddyhasneeds said:
Tallbut Buxomly said:
What steering. Its all heresay and could be led.It's irrelevant imho. It all is. Tomlinson was a dead man walking the plods push may or may not have contributed to his death in some small way but they arent responsible.
I really don't understand this comment. If he hadn't been pushed in the manner that he was do you think he would have spontaneously died?Most of us accept that the Police have a very difficult job, but there's something about the whole Tomlinson thing that leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth.
Half watching news, heard he may have had a drink? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1376517/Ne...
Deva Link said:
Dixie68 said:
I'm not sure what happened, but his family really get on my tits with all their walking out in protest etc. FFS where were they when he was sleeping rough? Caring family my arse.
I guess there's a reason for their current interest...ETA:
Edited by Dixie68 on Wednesday 13th April 20:06
Deva Link said:
Maybe plod should think about that before they push people over?
So true. What plod should do when at protests/riots when someone wont get out of the way is give them a full medical before proceeding to push them out of the way. They should also make sure the person is wearing a back and neck brace and that there are no trip hazards nearby etc etc.f
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