Jeremy Corbyn

[anonymous-user]

Meet the new politics - same as the old politics.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/m...

Literally, in this case.

[FredClogs]

RichB said:

Wow, Jeremy Corbyn to Premier League football! As someone who has supported a mid-table, occasionally relegated, premier league club for over 50 years (and as a player and with a son who played non-league at a decent level) I have thoughts on league and non-league football but this isn't really the right tread. To be honest football could come or go and the country would not stop.

However I assume top heart surgeons or brain surgeons earn more than £175K? Most CEOs of British companies contributing to British economy earn more than £175k too. Would we really be a better country without those surgeons? I guess people would all go to Europe for their operations. Would we be a better country without successful British businesses? I don't think so. It's a daft idea and one which would simply reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator.

The idea that people are doing heart surgery for the salary is also daft (and if true scary).

I don't accept that most successful people who have valuable input to society are motivated by financial reward, which is why football is such a good analogy because as you said what they do is really social chewing gum and we'd survive without it, likewise rock stars and actors.

[0000]

FredClogs said:

The idea that people are doing heart surgery for the salary is also daft (and if true scary).

Well fk, let's save some money there then. £50k ought to be sufficient, I'm sure there wouldn't be any complaints.

[Vaud]

Salary cap would need to be combined with rescinding passports.

On which planet does anyone in favour of a cap think top earners would stay in the UK.

I think some close inspection is needed in some areas - e.g. contractor rates for some parts of the NHS, but some of that is down to bad procurement rather than pure market forces.

[RichB]

FredClogs said:

The idea that people are doing heart surgery for the salary is also daft (and if true scary).

Most leading surgeons also have private practices and earn a serious income, it's daft (your word) to imagine they are living on a basic wage.

[Ali G]

crankedup said:

sidicks said:

crankedup said:

Yup, I go along with that. Money = Power. Try getting many of our PHer's to agree with that though!

Or, more accurately:

Unique skills = high demand = high wages.

Which seems perfectly reasonable...

Agreed entirely on the level of wage earnings, but I am referring to an altogether much higher level of Money = Power. Think Branson type money and power, not saying he hasn't earn't it, far from it. But the fact is Money = Power.

Well, I'll bite.

The above is so flawed as to be almost useless as a basis for argument, as follows:

(1) Unique skills - if they are unique - there will be few who understand what these skills are;
(2) Non-sequitur that there will be high demand for 'unique skills', unless there is a requirement for employment of 'unique skills', which is unlikely given (1);
(3) Given (2) and (1) then 'High Wages' is not a logical conclusion of (1) and (2)

The above may be improved if 'unique skills' were replaced by 'known to be of high ability' - which opens up a new can of squirm.

[Justayellowbadge]

Don't dismiss the media.

How many political journos are going to be in favour?

[anonymous-user]

On the face of it, he seems to be keeping the party machine at bay and has given himself a fighting chance of getting through the year.


I may be wrong, but I can't see many commentators saying he "blew it" in terms of keeping his party on side. (as much as he can)


I just can't see Corbyn having the energy to drive through "new politics" from the "bottom up" - so I feel sure that will fizzle out and the backbiting will begin soon.



And although I actually quite like McDonnell's style he is an accident waiting to happen.

[Gecko1978]

otolith said:

FredClogs said:

They have a wage cap in German football, their top teams seem to attract the elite and do well in European competition, there seems to be no determent to their international team, the ticket prices are uniformly capped and it doesn't seem to affect attendances, in fact quite the opposite.

Are you sure? I can find articles about it being considered, but not about it being implemented.

Oh and the NFL use a team cap and players are drafted in so in essence you play for who you are told. Also players get other no cash benefits like car house etc and no new teams can enter the NFL so it's really a much different set up.

My point is this like it or not if you have an above average skill set then as you move from the mean you can charge more. When you skill is very rare like a footballer or a consultant surgeon or a QC you can charge a lot more for it and as there are few of you the market will compete for your service. It's why traders at banka get paid a lot and tellers don't or why dentists get paid more than dental nurses. Taken to the extream 1 direction can charge 50,000 people 30 a ticket etc for 90 mins work. Demand and supply. Are we going to say to them sorry chaps your ticket earnings are capped at 175k per year.

[edh]

Pointless discussion about wage caps - it's not going to be labour policy, & wasn't in Corbyn's leadership campaign AFAIK.

We could always make up some more scary "policies" to get excited over..

[London424]

FredClogs said:

otolith said:

FredClogs said:

They have a wage cap in German football, their top teams seem to attract the elite and do well in European competition, there seems to be no determent to their international team, the ticket prices are uniformly capped and it doesn't seem to affect attendances, in fact quite the opposite.

Are you sure? I can find articles about it being considered, but not about it being implemented.

I think they do, they certainly have a more equitable system, better attendances and lower ticket prices. The NFL and NBA have salary caps but the cap exists for a team not for individuals (I think), and this is sort of the same as the FIFA regulations (Financial fairplay) that are being introduced which limit the % of a clubs turnover that can be paid in salary - but of course the benefits the larger richer clubs with the bigger turnovers...

The point being that a salary cap in any industry need not be an impediment to success and actually be a good thing for the market, the sector and the people working in it. If you want to get rid of nepotism, cronyism and failed capitalist models and create a really equitable market place that nurtures skill and talent then salary caps is a good way.

A salary cap in team sports is just a reflection of society in general. The guy with top talent/unique skills will earn loads, the guy who can be easily replaced will be on the minimum.

As soon as they don't earn what they want (max deals) for one team off they go to a team that will offer it.

[Halb]

desolate said:

On the face of it, he seems to be keeping the party machine at bay and has given himself a fighting chance of getting through the year.
I may be wrong, but I can't see many commentators saying he "blew it" in terms of keeping his party on side. (as much as he can)
I just can't see Corbyn having the energy to drive through "new politics" from the "bottom up" - so I feel sure that will fizzle out and the backbiting will begin soon.

Yeah, the car crash that was anticipated by some (hoped for by some) didn't materialise. I think he ultimately won't have the energy to help bring in the new, there are far too many nay-sayers each for their own selfish reasons to nobble him. A shame, it'll back to business as usual soon enough I feel, and the typical type of twaddle one hears in the HoC, on the news, here.
...then again...

[anonymous-user]

Halb said:

Yeah, the car crash that was anticipated by some (hoped for by some)...

I assume the only people that want rid are the Blairite left. Presumably the Tories, and the loony left both want to keep him. I want him to stay on despite the remote but terrifying possibility he could become PM, he's comedy gold!

[otolith]

Symbolica said:

Meet the new politics - same as the old politics.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/m...

Literally, in this case.

Fundamental left-right difference of attitude there - the idea that you have what you are given rather than what you make.

[Funk]

otolith said:

Symbolica said:

Meet the new politics - same as the old politics.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/m...

Literally, in this case.

Fundamental left-right difference of attitude there - the idea that you have what you are given rather than what you make.

It's also a great example of how Corbyn's trying to dress up mutton as lamb and how he's 30 years behind the curve, peddling out-of-date ideas that have no place in the modern world.

Seriously, Corbyn is the best thing to happen to the Tories in decades. Miliband made Labour unlectable and Corbyn's making sure it stays that way.

[RYH64E]

Yesterday's speech showed why Labour are unelectable with Corbyn in charge, he called for 'kinder politics and a more caring society', but on the whole voters are neither kind nor caring when it comes to society. Some voters will want something for nothing, but many more won't want to pay higher taxes to fund refugees, immigrants and benefits. That's been proved time after time, as recently as the last election the biggest issues on the doorstep were immigration and benefits. When it comes to a general election selfish will trump kind every time.

[turbobloke]

RYH64E said:

Yesterday's speech showed why Labour are unelectable with Corbyn in charge, he called for 'kinder politics and a more caring society', but on the whole voters are neither kind nor caring when it comes to society. Some voters will want something for nothing, but many more won't want to pay higher taxes to fund refugees, immigrants and benefits. That's been proved time after time, as recently as the last election the biggest issues on the doorstep were immigration and benefits. When it comes to a general election selfish will trump kind every time.

That's assuming Labour have somehow learned what to do after the "warm fuzzy words are easy" stage to get to the "make it happen via strategic policy implementation" stage, which has eluded them for 50 years.

Talk is cheap, bankrupting the country is Labour.

[WinstonWolf]

turbobloke said:

RYH64E said:

Yesterday's speech showed why Labour are unelectable with Corbyn in charge, he called for 'kinder politics and a more caring society', but on the whole voters are neither kind nor caring when it comes to society. Some voters will want something for nothing, but many more won't want to pay higher taxes to fund refugees, immigrants and benefits. That's been proved time after time, as recently as the last election the biggest issues on the doorstep were immigration and benefits. When it comes to a general election selfish will trump kind every time.

That's assuming Labour have somehow learned what to do after the "warm fuzzy words are easy" stage to get to the "make it happen via strategic policy implementation" stage, which has eluded them for 50 years.

Talk is cheap, bankrupting the country is Labour.

After watching some of his speech yesterday I'd say Corbyn is far more electable than I feared. He will appeal to the traditional Labour voter, I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Yours,

Ghengis Khan.

[truck71]

RYH64E said:

Yesterday's speech showed why Labour are unelectable with Corbyn in charge, he called for 'kinder politics and a more caring society', but on the whole voters are neither kind nor caring when it comes to society. Some voters will want something for nothing, but many more won't want to pay higher taxes to fund refugees, immigrants and benefits. That's been proved time after time, as recently as the last election the biggest issues on the doorstep were immigration and benefits. When it comes to a general election selfish will trump kind every time.

I think its's slightly different to that, most people are kind and willing to help others. What they're not is gullible, they don't want to work hard only to have their rewards taken from them in the name of unnecessary causes/beneficiaries. Had there not been such an increase in immigration over the last 15 years would society be more sympathetic to the migration crisis now? The last sentence is an observation rather than an opinion.

What's key for me is the need to have a culture of work equaling reward and the idea of state support being a last resort not an "option". This is where I have real objections to socialism, doesn't mean I don't care about society as a whole which is the label lefties would throw in my direction.

[turbobloke]

WinstonWolf said:

turbobloke said:

RYH64E said:

Yesterday's speech showed why Labour are unelectable with Corbyn in charge, he called for 'kinder politics and a more caring society', but on the whole voters are neither kind nor caring when it comes to society. Some voters will want something for nothing, but many more won't want to pay higher taxes to fund refugees, immigrants and benefits. That's been proved time after time, as recently as the last election the biggest issues on the doorstep were immigration and benefits. When it comes to a general election selfish will trump kind every time.

That's assuming Labour have somehow learned what to do after the "warm fuzzy words are easy" stage to get to the "make it happen via strategic policy implementation" stage, which has eluded them for 50 years.

Talk is cheap, bankrupting the country is Labour.

After watching some of his speech yesterday I'd say Corbyn is far more electable than I feared. He will appeal to the traditional Labour voter, I wouldn't write him off just yet.

Yours,

Ghengis Khan.

Traditional Labour voters were just about the only people voting Labour in May and it didn't help. It won't help in 2020. Labour's former top dogs, who are now distancing themselves from Corbyn, knew what was needed to win a future election. Corbyn as 'leader' wasn't one of them.