Half a million VWs recalled, sneaky emissions software.

[funkyrobot]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/volkswage...

Link posted in this thread by oldtimer2:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[Puggit]

Arrrgghhh, mine got done today. Have they ruined my vRS? (I haven't driven it since they returned it...)

[Burwood]

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

[Megaflow]

funkyrobot said:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/volkswage...

Link posted in this thread by oldtimer2:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That was always going to be the case. If they could have programmed the vehicle that easily to meet the emissions legislation, and produce the same power, torque and fuel consumption from the day it left the factory, they would have done.

The key word is official. VW have said the official power, torque and fuel consumption figures are the same. I am sure that is the case, because the car is operating on the official test cycle the same after the test as before.

The difference here is real world power, torque and fuel consumption.

[Fastdruid]

Megaflow said:

funkyrobot said:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/volkswage...

Link posted in this thread by oldtimer2:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That was always going to be the case. If they could have programmed the vehicle that easily to meet the emissions legislation, and produce the same power, torque and fuel consumption from the day it left the factory, they would have done.

The key word is official. VW have said the official power, torque and fuel consumption figures are the same. I am sure that is the case, because the car is operating on the official test cycle the same after the test as before.

The difference here is real world power, torque and fuel consumption.

From what I've seen elsewhere they've kept the "peak" values at the cost of killing the "midrange" so they can truthfully claim that the torque/power figures are unaffected but the reality is that it's taken a bashing everywhere else.

[funkyrobot]

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

[richie99]

Megaflow said:

funkyrobot said:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/volkswage...

Link posted in this thread by oldtimer2:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That was always going to be the case. If they could have programmed the vehicle that easily to meet the emissions legislation, and produce the same power, torque and fuel consumption from the day it left the factory, they would have done.

The key word is official. VW have said the official power, torque and fuel consumption figures are the same. I am sure that is the case, because the car is operating on the official test cycle the same after the test as before.

The difference here is real world power, torque and fuel consumption.

Agree entirely. You'd have to be mad to have let VAG 'fix' your car. It was inevitable that performance or economy, or both, were going to be worse. Why would anyone have done this?

[SpeckledJim]

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

Well they haven't been fined yet.

I don't think it'll split the group, but as-and-when a BP-sized fine lands on someone's desk, there will be a big impact. The Americans love it when they get a chance to punish a huge foreign company for taking the piss out of them.

[youngsyr]

richie99 said:

Megaflow said:

funkyrobot said:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/03/volkswage...

Link posted in this thread by oldtimer2:

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

That was always going to be the case. If they could have programmed the vehicle that easily to meet the emissions legislation, and produce the same power, torque and fuel consumption from the day it left the factory, they would have done.

The key word is official. VW have said the official power, torque and fuel consumption figures are the same. I am sure that is the case, because the car is operating on the official test cycle the same after the test as before.

The difference here is real world power, torque and fuel consumption.

Agree entirely. You'd have to be mad to have let VAG 'fix' your car. It was inevitable that performance or economy, or both, were going to be worse. Why would anyone have done this?

I suspect for cars under 3 years old, the warranty would be invalidated if you refused. Is it not also a legal requirement to have the work done in some places?

[Burwood]

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

[funkyrobot]

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

I thought that from a business perspective, you'd see an impact in their sales. From what I have read though, they don't seem to be suffering in that sense. Even with the news of fix results filtering through.

I guess we need to wait and see what the fines amount to then. Seems to be taking a long time to sort.

[Burwood]

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

I thought that from a business perspective, you'd see an impact in their sales. From what I have read though, they don't seem to be suffering in that sense. Even with the news of fix results filtering through.

I guess we need to wait and see what the fines amount to then. Seems to be taking a long time to sort.

I too read they were now ahead of pre scandal figures. However, it's the cash fines/compensation which looks ruinous. Added, you know they will cut costs/corners to get that money back. Im suggesting that it is plausible that the Group as we know it could take a hit they never recover from.

It's the attitude that is a concern. Stories that they lied and continue to deceive regulators. Makes customers start to question what they are buying. I have noticed a marked change in attitude in the customer service area and I'm a dyed in the wool VAG customer.

[funkyrobot]

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

I thought that from a business perspective, you'd see an impact in their sales. From what I have read though, they don't seem to be suffering in that sense. Even with the news of fix results filtering through.

I guess we need to wait and see what the fines amount to then. Seems to be taking a long time to sort.

I too read they were now ahead of pre scandal figures. However, it's the cash fines/compensation which looks ruinous. Added, you know they will cut costs/corners to get that money back. Im suggesting that it is plausible that the Group as we know it could take a hit they never recover from.

It's the attitude that is a concern. Stories that they lied and continue to deceive regulators. Makes customers start to question what they are buying. I have noticed a marked change in attitude in the customer service area and I'm a dyed in the wool VAG customer.

I owned one of their 1999 vehicles during the early to late 2000's. I couldn't fault the product then.

However, as time wore on, I noticed a distinct downturn in the quality of what they sold. I also disliked the attitude of their dealer sales teams. I wouldn't touch anything of theirs now unless it was something old at shed money.

[Burwood]

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

I thought that from a business perspective, you'd see an impact in their sales. From what I have read though, they don't seem to be suffering in that sense. Even with the news of fix results filtering through.

I guess we need to wait and see what the fines amount to then. Seems to be taking a long time to sort.

I too read they were now ahead of pre scandal figures. However, it's the cash fines/compensation which looks ruinous. Added, you know they will cut costs/corners to get that money back. Im suggesting that it is plausible that the Group as we know it could take a hit they never recover from.

It's the attitude that is a concern. Stories that they lied and continue to deceive regulators. Makes customers start to question what they are buying. I have noticed a marked change in attitude in the customer service area and I'm a dyed in the wool VAG customer.

I owned one of their 1999 vehicles during the early to late 2000's. I couldn't fault the product then.

However, as time wore on, I noticed a distinct downturn in the quality of what they sold. I also disliked the attitude of their dealer sales teams. I wouldn't touch anything of theirs now unless it was something old at shed money.

It doesn't matter how much money you have, everyone wants to feel like they struck a decent deal. We all know certain VAG products can be had for a discount. Imagine my surprise when local dealer offered a set of car matts on a 38k car, despite pointing out that whilst i don't expect a matched deal, car wow etc offered up to 12% off. Not vaguely interested in discussing it.

I've never had a dog VAG car. I can't say that for BMW-just luck of the draw i suppose but when something does go wrong id like to be sure they'd fix it. Im not so sure now.

When we moved back to the UK in 2010 after 4 years abroad, my wife arrived 2 months earlier to sort out the house etc so she needed a car of soughts to get around. I instinctively told her to just buy a Golf from a VW dealer. She buys an 18 month old TD GT. What could possibly go wrong! I arrive 2 months later to find 2 bald tyres and damage under the bottom sill. Dealer didn't want to know.

[xjay1337]

Maybe she was wheelie skidding everywhere and bumped up a curb or two.

[Burwood]

xjay1337 said:

Maybe she was wheelie skidding everywhere and bumped up a curb or two.

and maybe some people should stop adding nothing to threads simply to get their post count up. Go troll somewhere else

[funkyrobot]

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

funkyrobot said:

Burwood said:

In my opinion the vag group will be broken up to pay for this.

Something that drastic?

I thought it wouldn't affect them that much. They seem to be doing fine at the moment. Hasn't stopped people buying their products.

We haven't seen it play out yet. At least 2 years earnings in fines and compensation is still being determined. The fix fall out starting to circulate. It wouldn't take much for them to start closing factories and or get a government bailout.

I thought that from a business perspective, you'd see an impact in their sales. From what I have read though, they don't seem to be suffering in that sense. Even with the news of fix results filtering through.

I guess we need to wait and see what the fines amount to then. Seems to be taking a long time to sort.

I too read they were now ahead of pre scandal figures. However, it's the cash fines/compensation which looks ruinous. Added, you know they will cut costs/corners to get that money back. Im suggesting that it is plausible that the Group as we know it could take a hit they never recover from.

It's the attitude that is a concern. Stories that they lied and continue to deceive regulators. Makes customers start to question what they are buying. I have noticed a marked change in attitude in the customer service area and I'm a dyed in the wool VAG customer.

I owned one of their 1999 vehicles during the early to late 2000's. I couldn't fault the product then.

However, as time wore on, I noticed a distinct downturn in the quality of what they sold. I also disliked the attitude of their dealer sales teams. I wouldn't touch anything of theirs now unless it was something old at shed money.

It doesn't matter how much money you have, everyone wants to feel like they struck a decent deal. We all know certain VAG products can be had for a discount. Imagine my surprise when local dealer offered a set of car matts on a 38k car, despite pointing out that whilst i don't expect a matched deal, car wow etc offered up to 12% off. Not vaguely interested in discussing it.

I've never had a dog VAG car. I can't say that for BMW-just luck of the draw i suppose but when something does go wrong id like to be sure they'd fix it. Im not so sure now.

When we moved back to the UK in 2010 after 4 years abroad, my wife arrived 2 months earlier to sort out the house etc so she needed a car of soughts to get around. I instinctively told her to just buy a Golf from a VW dealer. She buys an 18 month old TD GT. What could possibly go wrong! I arrive 2 months later to find 2 bald tyres and damage under the bottom sill. Dealer didn't want to know.

My mother bought a brand new Golf GT from them a few years ago. Went to the showroom to collect it, opened the boot and was met with a terrible scraping noise. The boot hadn't been attached to the body properly and was scraping the paint off.

Salesman appeared with a can of WD40, sprayed it all over the boot/body interface and was surprised when we wanted it fixing properly.

My brother ordered a brand new Polo from one of the local dealers a while ago. Order placed and all was well. Dealer called a few weeks later and said he had to pay more money as the price they quoted was wrong (they wanted another thousand pounds off him). After much arguing, my brother told them if he didn't get the car for the original price, they could lump it. They did give him the car in the end.

We used to live near a couple who bought their first and only new car, a Polo, from a VW dealer. From the start the thing was broken and kept causing them issues. The steering was faulty (which was quite scary), it had starting issues, some electronics didn't work etc. Because they didn't know their rights, they just kept taking it back to the dealer to try fixes, rather than rejecting it. Over the two or three years they owned it, the thing spent around 3 months back at the dealers. Terrible service.

The last time we visited a VW dealer to look at a car was around 2 1/2 years ago. My fiancée was touting the idea of a new Polo to replace her 2003 model. We found a just shy of two years old used example and asked for a test drive. When we got in the car it stunk of mouldy dog, there was water all over the dash and inside the windscreen, there were brown mouldy stains all over the roof lining and the heater/fan didn't work. This car was one of their 'approved' stock and was priced at a premium amount. The salesman didn't seem at all bothered that we raised the issues above with him. Just said the car was fine.

Never again will we bother with VW.

[Alucidnation]

Wow, that is really unlucky for you and your acquaintances.

Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.

But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.

[xjay1337]

Burwood said:

xjay1337 said:

Maybe she was wheelie skidding everywhere and bumped up a curb or two.

and maybe some people should stop adding nothing to threads simply to get their post count up. Go troll somewhere else

I don't understand the cause for complaint.
She bought a car, used it for 2 months and then you found some damage to the sills, easy to do bumping up or down curbs, and balding tyres, due to many things....

But you blame that on the supplying VW dealer?

[Kitchski]

Fastdruid said:

From what I've seen elsewhere they've kept the "peak" values at the cost of killing the "midrange" so they can truthfully claim that the torque/power figures are unaffected but the reality is that it's taken a bashing everywhere else.

I would bet decent money this is the case. If they could make the engines run cleaner with equal power output with that technology, they'd have done it at the time.
The fix will likely show them as still hitting the numbers on the dyno, but real-world it'll have lost something, somewhere. fkin' sticks, if you ask me.


(Just a little pun in there to be enjoyed chaps)