Half a million VWs recalled, sneaky emissions software.
Discussion
Kitchski said:
Fastdruid said:
From what I've seen elsewhere they've kept the "peak" values at the cost of killing the "midrange" so they can truthfully claim that the torque/power figures are unaffected but the reality is that it's taken a bashing everywhere else.
I would bet decent money this is the case. If they could make the engines run cleaner with equal power output with that technology, they'd have done it at the time.The fix will likely show them as still hitting the numbers on the dyno, but real-world it'll have lost something, somewhere. f
kin' sticks, if you ask me.(Just a little pun in there to be enjoyed chaps)
I had a TT TDI that was affected by the deliberate fraud committed by VW.
It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
They won't alienate their customer base. VAG are a triumph of marketing, making people buy into all that 'German engineering' bullst. If a glovebox closes with a soft clunk, people assume the whole car has been designed and put together with the same nous.
There are different types of good engineering. The Alfa Romeo 75 has a rear-mounted gearbox, inboard rear brakes and front torsion bar suspension mounted at floor height, helping C.O.G. The Mini is a well-engineered car, as was the Hillman Imp (mostly). Citroen 2CV, DS, GS, CX...you name it. Mercedes made some fantastic stuff too, and that's what I'd label as the more Germanic style of engineering - brick sthouses drove well and lasted forever. VW have mostly always been the cheap and basic option, like a German version of Ford or Vauxhall, as far as I'm concerned anyway. I'm sure people will disagree, and they're free to do so. But the fact they're riding on the 'German' coat-tails is what's boosted the image element.
Not quite sure what kind of rant I'm descending into here, but basically I think VAG will be totally safe. People still think they're better than the (equally-competent) competition, people will still be image-conscious, and people will still buy them. They'll possibly be fined, but it'll be water off a duck's back.
t. If a glovebox closes with a soft clunk, people assume the whole car has been designed and put together with the same nous.There are different types of good engineering. The Alfa Romeo 75 has a rear-mounted gearbox, inboard rear brakes and front torsion bar suspension mounted at floor height, helping C.O.G. The Mini is a well-engineered car, as was the Hillman Imp (mostly). Citroen 2CV, DS, GS, CX...you name it. Mercedes made some fantastic stuff too, and that's what I'd label as the more Germanic style of engineering - brick s
thouses drove well and lasted forever. VW have mostly always been the cheap and basic option, like a German version of Ford or Vauxhall, as far as I'm concerned anyway. I'm sure people will disagree, and they're free to do so. But the fact they're riding on the 'German' coat-tails is what's boosted the image element.Not quite sure what kind of rant I'm descending into here, but basically I think VAG will be totally safe. People still think they're better than the (equally-competent) competition, people will still be image-conscious, and people will still buy them. They'll possibly be fined, but it'll be water off a duck's back.
Edited by Kitchski on Friday 7th April 09:23
brenflys777 said:
I had a TT TDI that was affected by the deliberate fraud committed by VW.
It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
xjay1337 said:
brenflys777 said:
I had a TT TDI that was affected by the deliberate fraud committed by VW.
It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?It was a nice car but the lack of apology or recompense for their deceitful behaviour will keep me away from VAG products.
To add insult to injury I had the car go into Limp Home mode giving a max of 2000rpm (IIRC) just after I'd pulled into the A5 with what should have been plenty of space before the traffic. Very close call.
At six months old I had a car whose engine management would kill the power because it detected a problem with the emissions system...even if killing the power might kill me. The manufacturer meanwhile couldn't give a toss about the actual emissions or the obligation to look after customers affected. Screwed up priorities.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
I'd rather have engine management indicate a problem on the dash and ask permission to lower the power than cut it possibly when I need it most. Jesus, since when should emissions tat ever be even closely capable of blowing up an engine? Never I'd say.
Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
xjay1337 said:
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Oilchange said:
I'd rather have engine management indicate a problem on the dash and ask permission to lower the power than cut it possibly when I need it most. Jesus, since when should emissions tat ever be even closely capable of blowing up an engine? Never I'd say.
Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
don't worry xjay is a thread troll.Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
xjay1337 said:
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Oilchange said:
I'd rather have engine management indicate a problem on the dash and ask permission to lower the power than cut it possibly when I need it most. Jesus, since when should emissions tat ever be even closely capable of blowing up an engine? Never I'd say.
Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
Exactly. The Audi engineers assured me after the car was repaired that the engine wouldn't have suffered any other damage as it was an exhaust gas recirculation unit sensor or something similar. Nothing catastrophic or dangerous, just damaging to emissions. Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
xjay1337 said:
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
I got an A5 for a week whilst it was fixed and just a bit of inconvenience, but the original incident just seems ironic in light of VAG fraud around emissions.
Maybe I'm an exception but the lack of any recompense or acceptance of blame for the emissions fraud, together with an imperfect car has put me off VAG for the foreseeable.
Alucidnation said:
Wow, that is really unlucky for you and your acquaintances.
Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
not at all...Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
reliability surveys for VW:
30/32 here: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
22/29 here: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car...
23/37 here: http://www.whatcar.com/news/honda-named-uks-reliab...
Edited by Efbe on Thursday 6th April 22:25
Efbe said:
Alucidnation said:
Wow, that is really unlucky for you and your acquaintances.
Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
not at all...Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
reliability surveys for VW:
30/32 here: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
22/29 here: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car...
23/37 here: http://www.whatcar.com/news/honda-named-uks-reliab...
Edited by Efbe on Thursday 6th April 22:25
Especially as Tesla are number one!
Kitchski said:
They won't alienate their customer base.
Actually they've alienated me. I was going to upgrade my business fleet to three new Amarok's, I like the idea of the economy and the size but this whole deception of VW's has really put me off.I'm defaulting to the safer option of three new Hilux's instead (and Toyota have the fleet sales/service down pat).
Alucidnation said:
Efbe said:
Alucidnation said:
Wow, that is really unlucky for you and your acquaintances.
Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
not at all...Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
reliability surveys for VW:
30/32 here: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
22/29 here: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car...
23/37 here: http://www.whatcar.com/news/honda-named-uks-reliab...
Edited by Efbe on Thursday 6th April 22:25
Especially as Tesla are number one!
Volume does not matter. Also Tesla will do well due to massively reduced moving parts.
Efbe said:
Never mind VW, only Jeep got in the way of VAG having the bottom four places!Efbe said:
Alucidnation said:
Efbe said:
Alucidnation said:
Wow, that is really unlucky for you and your acquaintances.
Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
not at all...Most people I know with vag products have never had any issues with them at all.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of the 'stories'.
reliability surveys for VW:
30/32 here: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-new...
22/29 here: http://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability/car...
23/37 here: http://www.whatcar.com/news/honda-named-uks-reliab...
Edited by Efbe on Thursday 6th April 22:25
Especially as Tesla are number one!
robm3 said:
Kitchski said:
They won't alienate their customer base.
Actually they've alienated me. I was going to upgrade my business fleet to three new Amarok's, I like the idea of the economy and the size but this whole deception of VW's has really put me off.I'm defaulting to the safer option of three new Hilux's instead (and Toyota have the fleet sales/service down pat).
Oilchange said:
I'd rather have engine management indicate a problem on the dash and ask permission to lower the power than cut it possibly when I need it most. Jesus, since when should emissions tat ever be even closely capable of blowing up an engine? Never I'd say.
Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
It's not, but many times it's just a "safer" way. Of course, it would be something that VAG would happily see happen as it means another potential customer for their over rated, moderately average and largely hateful (imo) products...
xjay1337 said:
So you'd rather it not go into limp mode and blow up?
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
Your post reads like you are a lawyer working on a class action suit.
If there is an issue with the emissions system, say a DPF pressure sensor can't tell how full the DPF is, and you continue to drive around like normal, eventually you will either choke the engine or cause a fire.
If your EGR valve is faulty then it may not open/close when it's supposed to which can cause excessive soot to build up in the DPF which can cause premature failure or fire!
So yes, "emissions tat" could cause a fire in the worst case scenario.
Say you have a boost leak, the turbo will try to make up the requested boost so will work harder, where as before it may need to boost to 16psi to make 16psi, due to the leak it may need to actually produce 25psi (increase duty cycle) to make the same 16psi at the MAP sensor due to the leak.
It COULD blow the turbo, at best a new turbo, at worst, shards of turbo go flying around your boost circuit, ruining the intercooler as they go, into your inlet, and you need a new engine.
The average user isn't smart enough to know what's good or bad for their car and as such you have to apply a worst case scenario. Like almost everything in life, fuses, amusement parks, elevators, lifts, even computers.
Yes when it goes into "limp" mode it is slow, painfully slow, turbo goes to wastegate pressure (7psi in my case) so it's very lethargic,. but it does drive and you can do 70mph on the flat if you need to. If you were pulling onto a motorway and had limp mode and it was the near death experience that it was made out to be then maybe Brenflys did not pull out in a safe manner to begin with.
Burwood said:
On that subject, they'll tear VW a new one either way. Sully their name, cost them millions or worse. I did like someone earlier saying overall 'a drop in the bucket'. yeah shareholders must be grinning ear to ear
I do agree, the financial cost to VW will be absolutely huge, but I don't think it will matter long term, *most* people don't really care it seems. Still haven't answered my previous question whether you blame the supplying VW dealer for the damaged sills and bald tyres. But asking questions makes me a troll...
brenflys777 said:
Maybe I'm an exception but the lack of any recompense or acceptance of blame for the emissions fraud, together with an imperfect car has put me off VAG for the foreseeable.
Has it financially effected you in any way?What do you want recompense for???????
Rovinghawk said:
xjay1337 said:
Has it financially effected you in any way?
What do you want recompense for???????
The hassle of his car having to be taken to the garage & collected another time? What do you want recompense for???????
The fault with his car he got a courtesy car for the time his car was fixed.
Cars break occasionally, so I don't think compensation is required.
As I said it sounds like a class action in the making, either that or he is American lol
xjay1337 said:
Has it financially effected you in any way?
What do you want recompense for???????
Yes, it has financially affected me. Yes I think Audi should be held morally and legally to compensate customers for a deliberate fraud they committed. What do you want recompense for???????
Before I'd explain why, you said earlier in the post that:
xjay1337 said:
Yes when it goes into "limp" mode it is slow, painfully slow, turbo goes to wastegate pressure (7psi in my case) so it's very lethargic,. but it does drive and you can do 70mph on the flat if you need to. If you were pulling onto a motorway and had limp mode and it was the near death experience that it was made out to be then maybe Brenflys did not pull out in a safe manner to begin with.
I'm not sure if you're trolling, so can you explain how when a vehicle is painfully slow in this mode, enters the mode with no warning and does so for a fault that is not immediately dangerous, you consider questioning my judgement on pulling out onto a road, but not the judgement Audi made in choosing to deliberately render a vehicles performance inadequate immediately for a fault they told me was not inherently dangerous or damaging? I've been a Police driver, a civilian Advanced Driver and I don't think a driver can be reasonably expected to assume their Audi might lose 3/5ths of its rev range every time they consider pulling out. Incidentally my incident was exactly as I described and occurred pulling out onto a single carriageway section of the A5, traffic in both directions and no escape route. The truck that nearly hit me should have been unaffected by me pulling out if I'd only had the performance of an Austin 1100 let alone a 2.0Tdi....
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