The 'No to the EU' campaign

[Beati Dogu]

Don't forget that once the referendum date is known, they'll start Project Fear in earnest. The stay in camp will have huge sums of money thrown at it by the many vested interests, just like in 1975.

[Scuffers]

http://order-order.com/2016/02/02/steve-baker-on-t...

[FiF]

REALIST123 said:

FiF said:

More evidence of EU thinking. If they had any sense they'd be working really hard to keep UK in the EU, but the watered down proposals from Tusk are square root of bugger all. Effectively the EU is saying "off you go then. "

Dave's getting nothing of any merit, no treaty change, nothing guaranteed, nothing legally binding. It's worse than even I expected.

I don't agree FiF, and I normally do with you, about the EU view. I have seen nothing but a staged 'argument', 'discussion' call it what you will. Cameron, who's party I voted for, is pulling our collective leg, staging this mock campaign with his EU mates trying to con us into believing he's negotiating a better future.

So far I have seen nothing, absolutely nothing of any substance. There I do agree.

fk them all, I'm voting out. At least it won't be my fault when the EU train finally hits the buffers. Shame on the hard of thinking who vote to stay in.

No problem for not agreeing, you may well be completely on the money. If so that makes things worse, for then not only is the EU attempting to mug off the British people, but so is our elected government and in a most deceitful and despicable way.

In which case why? Are they so unsure of their case? This is a once in several lifetimes opportunity to resolve this EU question once and for all, either way, and by conducting it in this manner then it will not be resolved regardless of the way the result goes. I even think that should the result go the wrong way we'll be asked to vote again. Sad isn't it?

[steveT350C]

in what way does CMD's Red Card differ from the Orange card that already exists?
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/secretariat_general/relati...

[superlightr]

steveT350C said:

in what way does CMD's Red Card differ from the Orange card that already exists?
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/secretariat_general/relati...

Rimmer - Change to Red alert.
Kyrton - Are you sure Sir? It does mean changing the bulb.

[Andy Zarse]

steveT350C said:

in what way does CMD's Red Card differ from the Orange card that already exists?
http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/secretariat_general/relati...

It doesn't. They're both useless.

Cameron must take the British people for fools...


Oh wait!!

[Scuffers]

just watching BBC News 24,

Who is this stupid woman?

[cloggy]

I feel fking cheated, I have been in the UK for 34 years paid all my taxes, never took a penny out of social services, bought my own houses, paid for private education for my kids etc.

My wife is British my children still have Dutch passports, my grand children are British (3), I still can't vote for parliament or now the EU referendum (I and my children want OUT).

WHY???? I don't want to apply for a British passport, although I can, why should I? We are all so called European.

Any Irish (travelers) can vote and many Pakistanis, why cant I ?

[covmutley]

I confess that I dont know enough about the EU to know how I would vote yet.

But these reforms are pathetic, and if they are all that can be achieved, subject to other states not disagreeing, which they will, then a federal EU looks like it is very real, and slightly scary.

I do think coming out will harm us economically in the short term, but that is not the only consideration of course. Im probably more concerned about Merkel deciding our policies and laws for us.

Edited by covmutley on Tuesday 2nd February 18:10

[FiF]

cloggy said:

I feel fking cheated, I have been in the UK for 34 years paid all my taxes, never took a penny out of social services, bought my own houses, paid for private education for my kids etc.

My wife is British my children still have Dutch passports, my grand children are British (3), I still can't vote for parliament or now the EU referendum (I and my children want OUT).

WHY???? I don't want to apply for a British passport, although I can, why should I? We are all so called European.

Any Irish (travelers) can vote and many Pakistanis, why cant I ?

You can't vote because you want to vote for out. GCHQ sussed you out for Dave. We're watching you cloggers.

Not a serious answer, obviously.

[spaximus]

This will all depend on how the question is framed and how many can be bothered to get off the arse and vote.

From many business men I have spoken with they all want to stay in the EU fearful of being unable to deal directly after a Brexit. They also state how would we cope without all the EU laws, like emissions, working hours directive etc? They may be correct but there is a huge reaction to immigration which he has still not got an answer on. Well he has really and that is nothing will change as they will not let him. There are some wishy washy bits but the reality is any EU citizen from where ever will be able to come here and milk us. They can send money home for benefits for kids not in the UK.
These are the issues that will get people voting for out as they see the old being forced to sell their home for care, the NHS short of cash whilst we health everyone all at the same time as we are handing over huge sums to the EU so they can help ex Eastern block countries build factories to take British jobs. True or not that is what many believe.
If they feel they will be better off and can get out and vote the PM is in trouble.
The lack of control of our own destiny is a worry. With so many EU dictates seemingly nonsensical again will that swing people.

And after all that if there is an out vote does anyone think it will happen? I suspect we will keep going until we give those in charge the correct answer

[turbobloke]

Just got an email from CMD, obviously it was a very personal thing and nobody else will have received a copy so here it is.

---

Dear TB

I thought I would give you an update on the progress of our re-negotiation of Britain’s relationship with Europe.

The draft new deal for Britain in Europe published today delivers that substantial change. Of course, there is still more detail to be worked on, but we have made real progress.

I said we needed:

*A ‘red card’ system for national parliaments to block unwanted EU laws
*An end to something for nothing welfare for EU migrants
*No more British taxpayers’ money being used to bail out the Eurozone
*An agreement that we will keep the Pound, never join the Euro and fair treatment for our currency in Europe; and
*Britain out of ‘ever closer union’ so we do not become part of a European Superstate

Some said these changes would be impossible to achieve. But they are all in the document.

So there is more work to be done, more detail to be nailed down, but we are delivering.

Of course, as I have said before, if we do not secure the changes that Britain needs, then I rule nothing out.

---

Even after the final details are worked out, for example how we can prevent some of our net contribution from being part of an EZ bailout, it's not self-determination and afaics it's not even part of a new Treaty.

[Scuffers]

I struggle to understand how people they supposedly businessman and run businesses that trade internationally can struggle to understand how the UK exiting the European Union would make life so difficult for them?

one thing it would certainly make VAT paperwork a lot more straightforward no more EU Sales List to be filled in.

[Einion Yrth]

I like to think of myself as fairly erudite and articulate, but I really find difficulty in accessing the vocabulary necessary to adequately express my complete and total despite for that loathsome, lying, venal, ham faced tool.

[egomeister]

ukbabz said:

Are we sure that CMD is going to run for the "better in"?! Is this some tactical move to get a crap deal then campaign against it!?

He wouldn't..... would he?

Reminded me of this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuyVlWbcfgQ

[KrissKross]

spaximus said:

From many business men I have spoken with they all want to stay in the EU fearful of being unable to deal directly after a Brexit.

Haha total nonsense, what "business men" have you spoken to?

I own a business, my colleagues own businesses, my business associates in Holland, Germany, France all want out (note I didn't say Greece or Poland)

We don't need to be told how to trade with each other by political children who have no clue about business!!

[dandarez]

KrissKross said:

spaximus said:

From many business men I have spoken with they all want to stay in the EU fearful of being unable to deal directly after a Brexit.

Haha total nonsense, what "business men" have you spoken to?

I own a business, my colleagues own businesses, my business associates in Holland, Germany, France all want out (note I didn't say Greece or Poland)

We don't need to be told how to trade with each other by political children who have no clue about business!!

Snap!

I have even spoken to customers across the channel well before this got out of hand, some who even don't want out, and they will still carrying on trading with me.

It's all a f. loathsome failure, a project doomed (as Farage said, was started with good intentions).

This short clip sums it up. Merkel and Hollande look like naughty children being scalded.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XvVynDAjWM

[steveT350C]

I have asked for a higher res version...

[alock]

don'tbesilly said:

Is Cameron on a different planet to most, or is he seriously deluded?

I find it quite disgraceful that a British PM has no concern for his citizens and is trying to kid people into thinking that what he considers as 'significant reforms' are nothing of the sort.

It reminds me of the episode of Yes Prime Minister where he cannot get what he actually wants for Trident because of the civil service. What he gets instead is a private cook for himself, something non of his predecessors achieved.
https://youtu.be/PZBM3kCoPEk
13 mins in.

[MG CHRIS]

Cameron is looking for a nice comfy job like blair within the eu so he himself be stupid not to want to still be apart of it. He does not care for the uk nor the people that voted him in. Hes not going to get any sort of reform its all just bullst.

Majority of people ive spoken to want out and will vote out of the eu just a matter of time and seeing if this will just be rigged in favour of staying.