Conservative MP - Police Rant.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

Countdown said:

However, apart from yourself, nobody has suggested the PC has not done exactly what he was supposed to do. OTOH the Chief Whip has made himself look an absolute pi110ck bu using words such as "Do you know who I am" and "Pleb". THAT is why he is currently issuing grovelling aplogies left, right, and centre, rather than arguing that the PC was in the wrong.

I think I've clearly shown that the policeman was not doing what he was there to do.

You are confusing what is the politically prudent course and reality.

Sorry - as far as I can see that is just your opinion of what the Policeman should or should not have done. Given the publicity the case has attracted I would have expected somebody in a much more knowledgeable position to have come forward and suggested that.

AFAICS nobody other than yourself has suggested the Policeman didn't do EXACTLY what he was entitled to do.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

whoami said:

Gene Vincent said:

Good Lord alive...


So not only are his duties rather different to how you seem to perceive them, he may have actually not done his job properly at all.

Edited by Gene Vincent on Saturday 22 September 12:07

Even the arrogant pillock himself is not suggesting that.

Politics...

I don't have to be re-elected and he is the Chief-Whip, he has to follow the advice he'd give one of his backbenchers, apologise and take a longer view.

So he's "letting" himself be made to look like a to55er to improve his chances of re-election?

Interesting strategy.................

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

Oh dear...

You've stated I have my facts wrong, where I asked.

I have said the guy's a jumped middle class twonk with generous dose of snobbery thrown into the mix.

I ask again, where have I got my facts wrong... your words, substantiate them!

You've said he lives at No 12 Downing Street. He doesn't. He has offices at Number 9.

"The Government Chief Whip has an official residence at 12 Downing Street."

Ugov website...

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

whoami said:

Gene Vincent said:

Good Lord alive...


So not only are his duties rather different to how you seem to perceive them, he may have actually not done his job properly at all.

Edited by Gene Vincent on Saturday 22 September 12:07

Even the arrogant pillock himself is not suggesting that.

Politics...

I don't have to be re-elected and he is the Chief-Whip, he has to follow the advice he'd give one of his backbenchers, apologise and take a longer view.

So he's "letting" himself be made to look like a to55er to improve his chances of re-election?

Interesting strategy.................

He has said sorry... and over the coming weeks more information will filter out... politics, it's a long game.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

Oh dear...

You've stated I have my facts wrong, where I asked.

I have said the guy's a jumped middle class twonk with generous dose of snobbery thrown into the mix.

I ask again, where have I got my facts wrong... your words, substantiate them!

You've said he lives at No 12 Downing Street. He doesn't. He has offices at Number 9.

"The Government Chief Whip has an official residence at 12 Downing Street."

Ugov website...

He may have an official residence there. Unlike the PM and Chancellor he doesn't live in Downing Street. He lives in Islington and in his constituency.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

He has said sorry... and over the coming weeks more information will filter out... politics, it's a long game.

Because he knows what he did is completely indefensible and that's the only course of action available to him if he wants to keep his job.

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

Oh dear...

You've stated I have my facts wrong, where I asked.

I have said the guy's a jumped middle class twonk with generous dose of snobbery thrown into the mix.

I ask again, where have I got my facts wrong... your words, substantiate them!

You've said he lives at No 12 Downing Street. He doesn't. He has offices at Number 9.

"The Government Chief Whip has an official residence at 12 Downing Street."

Ugov website...

He may have an official residence there. Unlike the PM and Chancellor he doesn't live in Downing Street. He lives in Islington and in his constituency.

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St. and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap, not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

[Red 4]

ClaphamGT3 said:

I don't think that it was right or courteous that Mitchell - if it is true - tore a strip off the guy in public but I do think that any protection officer needs to remember that their principal is called that for a reason.

You are a moron.

It is not the police's job to lick the boots of those they protect or do what their "principals" ask.

The police have a job to do. It does not involve massaging someones ego.

[Gene Vincent]

Now Countdown... you said 'facts'... another please.

Actually you need at least two as your first rebuttal fell flat on its face...

Edited by Gene Vincent on Saturday 22 September 12:52

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

Explaining to you how your statement was factually incorrect is an "apology"? Ok then....

Gene Vincent said:

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St.

No he isn't. He works there. Number 12 is currently being used to house the Prime Minister's Press Office, Strategic Communications Unit and Research and Information Unit. The Chief Whip has his offices in 9 Downing Street. He is as much "resident" there as the Cleaner. In fact the cleaner would probably be missed more.

Gene Vincent said:

and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap,

I'd suggest he (and other people who work in Downing St) benefit from the safety cordon being provided for the PM. If he was as important as you suggest there would be safety cordons around his house in islington (where he LIVES) and his constituency home in Sutton Coldfield.

Gene Vincent said:

not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

Well, in that case no doubt the "jumped ip fool" will be given a verbal bo11ocking from on-high for not doing his job? And the Tories will be calling for his head on a platter?

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

Explaining to you how your statement was factually incorrect is an "apology"? Ok then....

Gene Vincent said:

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St.

No he isn't. He works there. Number 12 is currently being used to house the Prime Minister's Press Office, Strategic Communications Unit and Research and Information Unit. The Chief Whip has his offices in 9 Downing Street. He is as much "resident" there as the Cleaner. In fact the cleaner would probably be missed more.

Gene Vincent said:

and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap,

I'd suggest he (and other people who work in Downing St) benefit from the safety cordon being provided for the PM. If he was as important as you suggest there would be safety cordons around his house in islington (where he LIVES) and his constituency home in Sutton Coldfield.

Gene Vincent said:

not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

Well, in that case no doubt the "jumped ip fool" will be given a verbal bo11ocking from on-high for not doing his job? And the Tories will be calling for his head on a platter?

He remains officially resident at No12... end of.

The IRA threat that precipitated those gates was not one against John Major (PM at the time) but the Cabinet and Government as a whole, but primarily the cabinet.

The chief-whip will spend more time with the PM than any other 'minister of state', he's his enforcer, for want of a better term.

So, I do see your post as 'retreat with bragging', Dunkirk style, but you suggested that I have my 'facts' wrong... so go to it lad, let's have them.

[Countdown]

Gene Vincent said:

He remains officially resident at No12... end of.

You said he lives there. he doesn't. He lives in Islington. "Facts" dear boy...

Gene Vincent said:

The IRA threat that precipitated those gates was not one against John Major (PM at the time) but the Cabinet and Government as a whole, but primarily the cabinet.

The main target would have been (and still is)the PM. Depending on their roles other members of Govt also have additional levels of security (Close Protection Officers etc). AIUI the Chief Whip gets none of these. It seems to me that you are giving him a level of importance that nobody else is.

Gene Vincent said:

The chief-whip will spend more time with the PM than any other 'minister of state', he's his enforcer, for want of a better term.

Spending time with the PM does not equate to being "important". The Downing Street secretarial pool probably spend a lot of time with the PM. They don't go up to policemen calling them "Plebs" or saying "Do you know who I am"?

Gene Vincent said:

So, I do see your post as 'retreat with bragging', Dunkirk style, but you suggested that I have my 'facts' wrong... so go to it lad, let's have them.

Ok - you win. The CW is incredibly important and lives at No 12 Downing Street.

[vonuber]

Mr Vincent, are you actually Andrew Mitchell? It's the only possible explanation that explains your posts.

[anonymous-user]

vonuber said:

Mr Vincent, are you actually Andrew Mitchell? It's the only possible explanation that explains your posts.

He just has a bizarre hatred for the police, god knows why.

[911 Turbo]

Gene Vincent said:

So, I do see your post as 'retreat with bragging', Dunkirk style, but you suggested that I have my 'facts' wrong... so go to it lad, let's have them.

You stated that "he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap" i.e. he was entering Downing Street. According to the Telegraph plus other sources (including a quote from the MP himself) he was leaving Downing Street. Therefore one of your "facts" is wrong.

[TheSnitch]

Gene Vincent said:

Hahahaha...

I'll take that as being as close to an apology as I'm going to get.

As far as security is concerned (and the policeman is there for that reason) he is a resident of Downing St. and he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap, not argued with at the fking gate by a jumped up fool who has lost sight of the reason for his very presence at the gate!

tt

I don't care whether he lives there, has an office there, had a reasonable expectation of the gate being opened or not.

The minute he played the ''do you know who I am?'' card and started swearing at the officer in question he put himself firmly in the wrong. And anyone suggesting otherwise is, in my humble but considered opinion, a complete tosser.

[Halb]

ClaphamGT3 said:

The issue is that it was the plod who wasn't doing his job properly.

We do not know this yet.

bhstewie said:

Does anyone actually know that the officer wasn't doing what he'd been instructed to do, or is it all based on what people think he should have done?

Can anyone help here? It would help my understanding of what went on.

[Gene Vincent]

Countdown said:

Gene Vincent said:

He remains officially resident at No12... end of.

You said he lives there. he doesn't. He lives in Islington. "Facts" dear boy...

Gene Vincent said:

The IRA threat that precipitated those gates was not one against John Major (PM at the time) but the Cabinet and Government as a whole, but primarily the cabinet.

The main target would have been (and still is)the PM. Depending on their roles other members of Govt also have additional levels of security (Close Protection Officers etc). AIUI the Chief Whip gets none of these. It seems to me that you are giving him a level of importance that nobody else is.

Gene Vincent said:

The chief-whip will spend more time with the PM than any other 'minister of state', he's his enforcer, for want of a better term.

Spending time with the PM does not equate to being "important". The Downing Street secretarial pool probably spend a lot of time with the PM. They don't go up to policemen calling them "Plebs" or saying "Do you know who I am"?

Gene Vincent said:

So, I do see your post as 'retreat with bragging', Dunkirk style, but you suggested that I have my 'facts' wrong... so go to it lad, let's have them.

Ok - you win. The CW is incredibly important and lives at No 12 Downing Street.

He remains officially a resident of Downing St... End of.

No, the threat was for the cabinet, the mortar was timed to coincide with the cabinet meeting that morning.

It doesn't make him 'more important' it makes him 'more at risk', which is the important issue regarding his treatment.

So, again, you said 'facts'... where are these facts?

[Gene Vincent]

Symbolica said:

vonuber said:

Mr Vincent, are you actually Andrew Mitchell? It's the only possible explanation that explains your posts.

He just has a bizarre hatred for the police, god knows why.

Far from it, but don't let that put you off making presumptions.

[Gene Vincent]

911 Turbo said:

Gene Vincent said:

So, I do see your post as 'retreat with bragging', Dunkirk style, but you suggested that I have my 'facts' wrong... so go to it lad, let's have them.

You stated that "he is to be placed within the safety cordon asap" i.e. he was entering Downing Street. According to the Telegraph plus other sources (including a quote from the MP himself) he was leaving Downing Street. Therefore one of your "facts" is wrong.

I never stated whether he was leaving or arriving, I stated that as a resident of the street he can request the gates being opened if the pedestrian exit is blocked or not, it was, he asked ha was refused by a jobsworth, in or out it is of no consequence.

On four separate occasions despite it being in the standing orders...

I used ingress to emphasise the issue only.

Edited by Gene Vincent on Saturday 22 September 14:03