China opens 11,000km of Motorway
Discussion
Digga said:
Super Slo Mo said:
Digga said:
Super Slo Mo said:
There aren't that many HGV's anyway, I don't think the overall number of them on the roads has changed in about 40 years.
Misleading, as you need to look at what constuituted the designation 'HGV' 40 years ago. At that time 180hp was something to shout about on a tractor unit. Today that'd barely pass muster for top-end 7.5 tonners, let alone artic tractor units where 400hp is pretty run-of-the-mill.DofT said:
Since the late-1980s, more than 60 per cent of goods moved have been transported by road. The amount travelling this way rose to 151 billion tonne kilometres in 2010 from 137 billion tonne kilometres in 2009, an increase of 10 per cent
ETA if you dig into stats provided, the road freight moved (in billion tonne kilometres) rose from 85 in 1970, to 151 in 2010, which is the latest year data is available for.And in the same period, rail freight fell from 25 to 19!
Edited by Digga on Thursday 3rd January 16:12
We haven't mentioned the quantity of goods delivered by road, simply the number of HGV's registered. You're effectively changing the subject, then suggesting I'm an idiot.
For the record, I'm not arguing the number of 'tonne kilometres' travelled, HGV's have got heavier in the last 30 plus years, so I'd say that's a given.
Back to my original statement, the number of HGV's on the road, and just in case I'm not being clear that's anything over 3,500 KG GVW, has hardly changed in 40 years. If you check the statistics, it rose from 420,000 in 1994, to 510,000 in 2006/7 and has dropped to 465,000 in 2011. The use of heavier trucks, and bigger capacity double deck trailers has probably contributed to this.
The light traffic suddenly backed up and came to a stop as we were in the taxi just after getting into Shanghai. Didn't seem to be any reason on the road, no crashes/ambulances etc. As the traffic crawled along we saw police cars blocking the road on the other side. Thankfully it was just an office building and it had happened in the middle of the night with nobody reportedly hurt. Scary stuff though. Corners cut to pocket money in some construction deals, thankfully not everywhere.
scenario8 said:
Can't see it making much impact to be honest. The Olympic Park used the waterways extensively in its construction, mind.
That's what sparked the original query. Just feels like such an underused resource. Guess it all boils down to finding the use case and having economies of scale.uk_vette said:
.
Do you live in China ? Where?
vette
No, I'm not living the Big Easy life of the Ex-Pat Do you live in China ? Where?
vette
I'm one of those Industrial Tourists that spend around 20% of the year there, but still "UK based", so some of the downsides of working in China and none of the tax breaks!
I mainly spend my time in middle to southern China, with occasional trips to Beijing, visiting and working with different industrial companies. Most of the time I really enjoy it and finding how the "real" China differs from my preconceptions is still enlightening even 3 years down the line from my first trip!
How about you?
Some factoids:
In 2003 UK passenger miles were broken down in the following way:
85% car (Inc: taxi)
6% bus
6% rail
1% each air, pedal cycle and motorcycle
So a nominal 700% increase in bus and rail transit to replace cars, of course that would require more than 7 times as many buses and trains as the more car journey you replace the lower the average ridership of public transport becomes.
Public transport is a 19th/20th century solution.
The future is most probably this:
If cars are autonomous is leads to a number of paradigm shifts:
In 2003 UK passenger miles were broken down in the following way:
85% car (Inc: taxi)
6% bus
6% rail
1% each air, pedal cycle and motorcycle
So a nominal 700% increase in bus and rail transit to replace cars, of course that would require more than 7 times as many buses and trains as the more car journey you replace the lower the average ridership of public transport becomes.
Public transport is a 19th/20th century solution.
The future is most probably this:
If cars are autonomous is leads to a number of paradigm shifts:
- Why own your own car, if you can call it to you on demand and you can order precisely the right type car to you for your journey?
- If you don't own your car that means it doesn't have to sit on your drive or outside the shops or your work. Which means you need far fewer of them and their utilisation factor will be much higher (ergo they will be cheaper to run)
- Car sharing will be much easier as you don't have to coordinate both outbound and return journeys. Potentially you could share with complete strangers to reduce the cost.
- Traffic jams will be much less of an issue as the cars will behave much better than manually driven ones.
- For intercity transport large mini-bus sized cars could work on a semi-on demand basis adjusting it's route to pick you up and then travelling in convoy at high speed to reduce drag.
hornet said:
On the subject of rail freight, does anyone know how much of the pre-Beeching network still exists, in the sense the routes are still intact and could be at least partially reused? Also, do coastal shipping and inland waterways have a role? How much road/rail/sidings capacity is taken up with slow moving non-perishable goods that could be diverted to an inland water network? In the age of Congestion Charging and Low Emission Zones, could canals become a viable means of getting certain goods into large cities again?
A lot of Beeching's lines are still 'intact' but used as cycle/walk routes. Possibly more of an issue is the re-use of the stations, goods yards and other infrastructure.As for waterways, bulk commodities could, theoretically, move that way, but I'd guess that the labour element (you cannot have a crew of one on a freight barge) would make it prohibitive.
We don't need more roads in the UK, we just need to use them more efficiently.
Look around you when you're on the road? How many cars have multiple occupants? How many are making really short journeys?
I think I read somewhere that a significant minority of car journeys are 1 mile or less. That's 17 minutes to walk, or 4 minutes on a bike.
Oh and the nation is becoming obese. I wonder why.
Look around you when you're on the road? How many cars have multiple occupants? How many are making really short journeys?
I think I read somewhere that a significant minority of car journeys are 1 mile or less. That's 17 minutes to walk, or 4 minutes on a bike.
Oh and the nation is becoming obese. I wonder why.
oyster said:
We don't need more roads in the UK,
So we've been adding, at conservative estiamtes, a quarter of a million new citizens to the country each year for about the last decade and the infrastructure's all fine and dandy. Really?oyster said:
...
Look around you when you're on the road? How many cars have multiple occupants? How many are making really short journeys?
I think I read somewhere that a significant minority of car journeys are 1 mile or less. That's 17 minutes to walk, or 4 minutes on a bike.
Oh and the nation is becoming obese. I wonder why.
On this point I agree, but that in no way relates to the collossal volumes of traffic on the motorways. Ask anyone who's regualrly used the M6 or M62 to commute recently. Over the Xmas hoiday it was a joke too - under 50mph betwen B'ham and MCr a lot of the time, purely because of the volumes of vehicles.Look around you when you're on the road? How many cars have multiple occupants? How many are making really short journeys?
I think I read somewhere that a significant minority of car journeys are 1 mile or less. That's 17 minutes to walk, or 4 minutes on a bike.
Oh and the nation is becoming obese. I wonder why.
oyster said:
How many cars have multiple occupants?
Probably quite a few as it's rare that two people wish to leave the same point and go to the same point at the same time. Still, better than a bus with only a driver I say.oyster said:
How many are making really short journeys? I think I read somewhere that a significant minority of car journeys are 1 mile or less. That's 17 minutes to walk, or 4 minutes on a bike.
Or 1 minute in a car. It's probably a two way journey too so double the numbers all round.oyster said:
Oh and the nation is becoming obese. I wonder why.
Being worked too hard at computers to pay for all the public transport probably. Exercise shouldn't be a compulsory part of transport. I'd rather play sport than cycle and I'd rather reduce commute times so I've more time to play sport.
0000 said:
oyster said:
How many cars have multiple single occupants?
Probably quite a few as it's rare that two people wish to leave the same point and go to the same point at the same time. Still, better than a bus with only a driver I say.
Edited to better suit your reply, I think.,
Justices said:
The light traffic suddenly backed up and came to a stop as we were in the taxi just after getting into Shanghai. Didn't seem to be any reason on the road, no crashes/ambulances etc. As the traffic crawled along we saw police cars blocking the road on the other side. Thankfully it was just an office building and it had happened in the middle of the night with nobody reportedly hurt. Scary stuff though. Corners cut to pocket money in some construction deals, thankfully not everywhere.
How do you know? Shocking photograph though, surprised no one has commented on it!
There was a report on BusinessInsider last year about ash and concrete for their high speed railways. Not sure I understand the concept totally, but for the right grade of concrete you need a certain high grade of ash. And you need that concrete for things like high speed railways. But the Chinese haven't been able to source enough, so just used some low grade ash for the concrete. All the blogs reckoned that would reduce the life time of the concrete by 50% until an expert came forward to say "erm no, if the concrete isn't strong enough, think closer to 5-10 years".
Again, the roadway that fell over a couple of years ago - see much reinforcing bar in it? I didn't. I'm not a construction engineer, but I'm sure there should have been a bit more.
The question is how long it is before China's infrastructure falls apart.
jbi said:
The UK has more or less halted motorway construction for quite some time, leaving the network largely disjointed and incomplete while dumping huge sums of money into public transport.
Has congestion in the UK gotten any better?
Does that money go to investment into public transport or does it go to subsidise private companies whose aim is run the service to the lowest possible standard while eeking maximum profit (and subsidy) from it?Has congestion in the UK gotten any better?
Edited by jbi on Thursday 3rd January 11:31
Hunky Dory said:
uk_vette said:
.
Do you live in China ? Where?
vette
No, I'm not living the Big Easy life of the Ex-Pat Do you live in China ? Where?
vette
I'm one of those Industrial Tourists that spend around 20% of the year there, but still "UK based", so some of the downsides of working in China and none of the tax breaks!
I mainly spend my time in middle to southern China, with occasional trips to Beijing, visiting and working with different industrial companies. Most of the time I really enjoy it and finding how the "real" China differs from my preconceptions is still enlightening even 3 years down the line from my first trip!
How about you?
I am slogging my guts out every day,
.
.
If you believe that, you will believe any thing.
I am "relaxing", now into my 3rd year.
Travel a bit here and there, and south, and north, etc.
Just enjoy life.
vette
Hackney said:
jbi said:
The UK has more or less halted motorway construction for quite some time, leaving the network largely disjointed and incomplete while dumping huge sums of money into public transport.
Has congestion in the UK gotten any better?
Does that money go to investment into public transport or does it go to subsidise private companies whose aim is run the service to the lowest possible standard while eeking maximum profit (and subsidy) from it?Has congestion in the UK gotten any better?
Edited by jbi on Thursday 3rd January 11:31
Given that trains carry on 6% of the UK passenger miles even if you went on a massive and costly railway building program you wouldn't come close to taking even a tiny fraction of the traffic off the roads.
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