The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[sidicks]

///ajd said:

I assume you weren't taking that seriously?

I don't think anyone takes anything you say seriously!

HTH

[B'stard Child]

sidicks said:

///ajd said:

I assume you weren't taking that seriously?

I don't think anyone takes anything you say seriously!

HTH

You speaking for all of us again



Actually you probably are - I stopped taking him seriously a while back - maybe a little over a month after "independence day" - I know I shouldn't have been that slow but he started having sympathy for the poor and I'm a sucker for a lost cause

[citizensm1th]

Would i bks and neither would the armed services either.

we as a nation had until recently armed forces arguably second only to the U.S. in quality and that did not come from expensive equipment but from a professional all volunteer army ,navy and airforce.

one thing you will notice about ALL the tier one armed forces in the world is they are all volunteer once you start adding conscripts who really really dont want to be there you water down the quality

[Northern Munkee]

citizensm1th said:

Northern Munkee said:

citizensm1th said:

Northern Munkee said:

B'stard Child said:

citizensm1th said:

B'stard Child said:

citizensm1th said:

Digga said:

Northern Munkee said:

citizensm1th said:

Id like to know how we will patrol the Uk,s waters ,maybe we should think about re arming trawlers

A proper coast guard, like every other significant country with a coast?

I just checked and Wikki says we have a navy, sort of.

hahahahaha now i know your smoking somthing

the uk,s current fisheries protection fleet consists of

4 R.N. patrol vessels one of which is in the Falklands covering English and welsh waters
they need to patrol approximately 60,000 square miles of sea(thats just english and welsh waters)


Scottish waters are patroled by
3 Scottish fisheries protection vessels and two aircraft

An opportunity to build a few more ships - bring back national service and get some of the 3,000,000 people back to useful employment

Can't see any downsides myself









Well apart from being seasick but that passes after a while for most people and if they've been unemployed for any length of time (like their whole life) then sitting in front of daytime TV eating junk food means that being sick might have some added health benefits (besides the sea air)

hello 1952

two replies

1. I am not a number I am a free man

2. Why on earth would it be 1952 - national service finished in 1963.

citizensm1th said:

I wonder what the cost of that would be?

Well obviously the Ships would be a cost but we are paying the people already to do nothing......

Exactly. Seem happy to spunk cash on a "garden bridge", or reallocate some the overseas aid budget

Don't think National Service is necessary doesn't have to be big, fold Fisheries into it, incorporate into the Border Force, if Iceland can afford a coast guard then the fk can't we?

Edited by Northern Munkee on Friday 23 December 13:54

the Icelandic coast guard consists of 4 vessels wow a truly mighty giant of a naval power

this made made me chuckle

"Today the Coast Guard remains Iceland's premier fighting force equipped with armed patrol vessels and aircraft and partaking in peacekeeping operations in foreign lands.

The Coast Guard has four vessels and four aircraft (one fixed wing and three helicopters) at their disposal."


btw the coast guard is it .Iceland has no other defence force so to ask why Iceland can afford a coast guard when we cant is a dumb in the ex stream.

Dumb in the extreme, I think you mean. No it shows that Iceland, a small island, which has a significant part of its GDP made up by fishing can manage/protect its fishing grounds effectively with a small maritime force of a few planes and a few ships. It also proves that you don't need a Type 31 Frigate armed with surface to surface, surface to air, anti submarine fighting capability to take care of a few French or Spanish trawler men who have wandered out of their part of the continental shelf. So £1bn war fighting machine is not required unless you're socialist who love to waste other people's money. Combine it with an expanded border force or Fisheries protection, or just expand those, it's only because it's winter were not seeing rubber boats and canoes across the channel from Calais, while our handful of border force boats are "patrolling", "protecting" thousands of miles of coastline, that's assuming they are not deployed to The Med.

il point you towards our honourable friend B'stardchild,s post above iceland only has a third of the area to cover that the U.K dose ,If you think increased patrols to stop our continental friends fishing in our waters will not cost us any extra to the costs we incur now lets hear your reasoning?

Yeah I see your post to BChild. And you're wrong again Fisheries protection, border protection and guarding the coast, isn't an extra cost because of Brexit, it's not been adequately policed while we've been on the EU, was just plain under resourced IMHO in, out shake it all about of the EU. There are some costs that come with being an island, there ought to be some benefits, and there were but we've been holed below the waterline on a falsehood of it'll only be for trade. Fortunately we've woken up and there is still a few good men to man a ship or two amongst all these landlubbers from Manchester council estates.

Ahoy there me hearties!




Fisheries Protection Vessel Victory

[B'stard Child]

citizensm1th said:

Would i bks and neither would the armed services either.

we as a nation had until recently armed forces arguably second only to the U.S. in quality and that did not come from expensive equipment but from a professional all volunteer army ,navy and airforce.

one thing you will notice about ALL the tier one armed forces in the world is they are all volunteer once you start adding conscripts who really really dont want to be there you water down the quality

So second only to the USA

You realise that most people in the USA join the forces because they have no other choice to escape whatever sthole they grew up in?

But they are the best......

Why do so many people from the northern counties join the Forces.........

[B'stard Child]

Northern Munkee said:

Yeah I see your post to BChild. And you're wrong again Fisheries protection, border protection and guarding the coast, isn't an extra cost because of Brexit, it's not been adequately policed while we've been on the EU, was just plain under resourced IMHO in, out shake it all about of the EU. There are some costs that come with being an island, there ought to be some benefits, and there were but we've been holed below the waterline on a falsehood of it'll only be for trade. Fortunately we've woken up and there is still a few good men to man a ship or two amongst all these landlubbers from Manchester council estates.

Ahoy there me hearties!




Fisheries Protection Vessel Victory

Makes me fking proud so see that ship - Gypsy Moth also has the same effect.

[Jockman]

Anyone else realise it's exactly 6 months since what don4l calls 'Great Freedom Friday'??

[wc98]

Ridgemont said:

Finally a contribution from a remainer (Marr) that grasps the point of Brexit. Several hundred pages of this thread has largely been to fight an argument that has already been decided. Looking forwards instead of backwards is a vastly more productive exercise:

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/12/op...

nearly fell of my chair reading that from marr. there are a few individual points i would disagree with (real environmentalism has been a disaster under eu management, the virtue signalling type where people pay 3 quid a month to the wwf and call themselves environmentalists has done quite well though) but the sentiment is spot on. the freedom of choice of direction whereby specific areas and niche sectors do not get swept aside in the one size fits all compromise that comes from trying to get all the member states to agree on issues.

[citizensm1th]

B'stard Child said:

citizensm1th said:

Would i bks and neither would the armed services either.

we as a nation had until recently armed forces arguably second only to the U.S. in quality and that did not come from expensive equipment but from a professional all volunteer army ,navy and airforce.

one thing you will notice about ALL the tier one armed forces in the world is they are all volunteer once you start adding conscripts who really really dont want to be there you water down the quality

So second only to the USA

You realise that most people in the USA join the forces because they have no other choice to escape whatever sthole they grew up in?

But they are the best......

Why do so many people from the northern counties join the Forces.........

U.S. millitary rejects between 70-80% of all applicants

And yes i believe we were second only to the U.S. but i may be biased.


I dont know why so many people from the north join the forces but then when i joined i lived pretty much as far south as you can get in the U.K.



By the looks of it in 2009 army recruitment looks pretty evenly spread across the country

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/23021/respo...

Edited by citizensm1th on Friday 23 December 15:59

[wc98]

B'stard Child said:

Not a fking chance in hell - never gonna happen and you know it - I know it - probably many other NP&E users know it.

thanks, i read the post back and thought it might have come across as written by an areshole, but at least an ahole with a point. fortunately i know i am an ahole, so don't have a problem with anyone that may think that

[Tryke3]

Seem to remember we won the cod wars

We lost the cod wars and they only had fishing vessels fighting our entire navy

[wc98]

Tryke3 said:

Gotta love a brexiter, happy to destroy the seas for future generations just to pay his loan on a boat that makes around 1000 people redundant just to drive an audi. Do one prick

did you actually read what i wrote ? your ignorance on how mixed fisheries are harvested is up there with ajd. the common fisheries policy has resulted in more harm done to uk and european waters than anything that went before.

for instance ,bass, a fish that had seen little exploitation pre cfp suddenly saw a huge increase in effort as the problems caused by using landing quotas instead of effort restrictions forced a switch onto them.

ahole i do not mind, prick , well lets just say you would not call me that to my face, well not twice anyway

[citizensm1th]

wc98 said:

Tryke3 said:

Gotta love a brexiter, happy to destroy the seas for future generations just to pay his loan on a boat that makes around 1000 people redundant just to drive an audi. Do one prick

did you actually read what i wrote ? your ignorance on how mixed fisheries are harvested is up there with ajd. the common fisheries policy has resulted in more harm done to uk and european waters than anything that went before.

for instance ,bass, a fish that had seen little exploitation pre cfp suddenly saw a huge increase in effort as the problems caused by using landing quotas instead of effort restrictions forced a switch onto them.

ahole i do not mind, prick , well lets just say you would not call me that to my face, well not twice anyway

What we have here is a bad ass

[B'stard Child]

citizensm1th said:

wc98 said:

Tryke3 said:

Gotta love a brexiter, happy to destroy the seas for future generations just to pay his loan on a boat that makes around 1000 people redundant just to drive an audi. Do one prick

did you actually read what i wrote ? your ignorance on how mixed fisheries are harvested is up there with ajd. the common fisheries policy has resulted in more harm done to uk and european waters than anything that went before.

for instance ,bass, a fish that had seen little exploitation pre cfp suddenly saw a huge increase in effort as the problems caused by using landing quotas instead of effort restrictions forced a switch onto them.

ahole i do not mind, prick , well lets just say you would not call me that to my face, well not twice anyway

What we have here is a bad ass

No what we have here is the natural escalation of the conversation when some is told they are to do one and that they are a prick

The contribution to the debate is Nil point.

So lets just move on and continue the debate

Now about these armed forces cuts being only ever carried out by Tories - how is the google search getting on?

[B'stard Child]

Funkycoldribena said:

Bloody hell, that's chaos on a phone.

What I really like is you quoted the lot

[Guybrush]

What Brexit jitters? UK third quarter growth upgraded.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/what-brexit-ji...

The UK economy grew at a faster than expected pace of 0.6pc in the third quarter amid a stronger expansion in business services and Britain's finance industries.

Consumer spending keeps driving UK growth.

Services data for October suggested growth in the fourth quarter would continue to be driven by household spending.
The ONS said the sector, which drives more than three quarters of UK output, expanded by 0.3pc on the month, with retail sales driving almost half of the overall increase.
Capital Economics expects the UK economy to expand by 0.5pc in the final three months of the year, which would put annual growth at 2pc in 2016.

[B'stard Child]

Northern Munkee said:

Yeah I see your post to BChild. And you're wrong again Fisheries protection, border protection and guarding the coast, isn't an extra cost because of Brexit, it's not been adequately policed while we've been on the EU, was just plain under resourced IMHO in, out shake it all about of the EU. There are some costs that come with being an island, there ought to be some benefits, and there were but we've been holed below the waterline on a falsehood of it'll only be for trade. Fortunately we've woken up and there is still a few good men to man a ship or two amongst all these landlubbers from Manchester council estates.

Just like we've lost the ability to make trade deals outside of the EU

Seems perfect to pop in my "Reason to leave" Number 17 "Trade deals by the EU for the member states take way too long - with 28 ooops 27 other interested parties who want to be protectionist of aspects that affect their regional issues - I'm amazed any get agreed at all and when they are they are a horrible compromise"

[citizensm1th]

B'stard Child said:

citizensm1th said:

wc98 said:

Tryke3 said:

Gotta love a brexiter, happy to destroy the seas for future generations just to pay his loan on a boat that makes around 1000 people redundant just to drive an audi. Do one prick

did you actually read what i wrote ? your ignorance on how mixed fisheries are harvested is up there with ajd. the common fisheries policy has resulted in more harm done to uk and european waters than anything that went before.

for instance ,bass, a fish that had seen little exploitation pre cfp suddenly saw a huge increase in effort as the problems caused by using landing quotas instead of effort restrictions forced a switch onto them.

ahole i do not mind, prick , well lets just say you would not call me that to my face, well not twice anyway

What we have here is a bad ass

No what we have here is the natural escalation of the conversation when some is told they are to do one and that they are a prick

The contribution to the debate is Nil point.

So lets just move on and continue the debate

Now about these armed forces cuts being only ever carried out by Tories - how is the google search getting on?

Iv not looked ,have you?

just had a look for fun and since 1957 the results are

1957 sandys review conservative cuts
1965-1968 Healey Reviews labour cuts
Mason Review – 1974-1975 conservative continued the previous governments cuts
Nott Review – 1981 conservative cuts (naval budgets reassessed after the Falklands conflict)
Options for Change – 1990 conservative cuts
The Defence Costs Study – 1994 conservative cuts
Strategic Defence Review – 1998 labour cuts
Delivering Security in a Changing World 2003 labour cuts
Strategic Defence and Security Review 2010 con/lib cuts
Strategic Defence and Security Review 2015 conservative no cuts but general reshuffle of assets


conservative have cut the defense budget 6 times
labour have cut the defense budget 3 times

Edited by citizensm1th on Friday 23 December 17:30

[wc98]

PRTVR said:

As with everything nobody knows, but the BBC did a piece from the Shetland's, the local fisherman was pointing out the different nationalities of the trawlers, if we reverted to national waters and being a large island surrounded by water it must make a difference, interesting point about British ships fishing in other EU areas I don't know but I think we have the largest good fishing area that is shared with the rest of the EU.

first up, apologies for the rant, it was a bit ott. the uk is in the strongest position out of all the european countries in terms of fisheries negotiations, that includes norway as hard as it might be to believe. their pelagic fleet is far more dependent on access to uk waters than the uk fleet is on access to their groundfish. contrary to popular belief the north sea is booming at the moment, that is another reason landings do not reflect the true picture over the last twenty years or so, they bear no relation to what was actually caught .

the main reason that uk waters still have a good head of various fish species is the weather. the weather on its own has done more for conservation than anything else. the med has just about been wiped clean of many traditionally fished species due to the fact that days where fishing can actually take place are far more frequent. velvet swimming crabs are a good example of this. since the late nineties there has been a huge head of them in the north sea .they used to be like that in the med where conditions are actually better for them breeding, yet catches are a fraction of what they used to be in the med as they have been fished out.( as an aside they are a temperature sensitive species, there were none in my area of the north sea up until the mid to late nineties, now they are the mainstay of the local potting industry in the summer, as the amo drops further toward the cool phase i expect them to shift south again).

another example of the protection the weather offers various species in the uk is the clyde. it is a sheltered area and since the 3 mile limit was lifted after we joined the cfp to appease the commercials of the day,it has remained largely devoid of mature whitefish species. there is what is termed a "relic" stock of large cod that continue to breed there and some haddock as at the moment the clyde system is full of juvenile haddock and codling. the problem is with it being sheltered the majority of the west coast prawn fleet and a lot of irish boats fish it continuously for prawns. as soon as those small codling and haddock get to the size they stay in a cod end on a prawn trawl they become discards.

easy to blame the commercials apart from the fact they were payed to convert to prawn gear by the uk government back in the day when whitefish stocks collapsed not long after we joined the cfp as a result of over fishing and changing environmental conditions that reduced recruitment to low levels.
now any sensible government would have looked at this and worked out some effort restrictions in areas like the clyde with the appropriate compensation /retraining/etc to try and rebuild the fishery.

one of the most successful conservation measures was the real time closure scheme in the north sea . when x amount of juvenile cod were caught per hour of tow it would be reported to marine scotland and a 25 mile square area would be closed off. the problem with that was it only applied to uk boats, so eu boats in the area could carry on fishing in the areas if they liked. this was a great example of a specific tool that could be deployed quickly , something the cfp cannot ever do. the fisheries world is a fast moving ever changing environment. having a sloth like archaic oversight committee in the eu making the decisions that needed to be made in days, sometimes hours was never going to happen .

i have no idea where we will actually go in terms of fisheries post brexit. if done correctly we could have some of the most productive and environmentally sound seas in the world. orgs like cefas appear to still be working on the premise that we will be working under the cfp if their latest projects involving targeting anglers catches is anything to go by.

[walm]

He's gone from internet bad-ass to such timid posting that he refuses to use CAPS at all!!

(Good post though, thanks!)