Suella Braverman: ‘Islamists are in charge’
Discussion
Tory party really imploding here? I didn't think we could live in more 'interesting times' as the old Chinese curse suggests. Every day proves me wrong. I am a naive idealist who has huge hope, and confidence, in humanity's humanity. I'm glad my lived experience validates this feeling more than some vile individuals pursuing and promoting division to further their own agendas makes it seem unlikely.
86 said:
Kermit power said:
86 said:
But 40% of the population think it’s ok to vote red and totally ignore the idiots how does that bring society together. It just makes the situation worse. Multiculturalism is failing and the next 9 months running up to the election overlaid by Trump in the USA will drag us further into a permanent state of division.
Did the person who told you that tell you what "multiculturism" is, how it's failing and what it means for the future? Did they give you any actual statistics to support the claim, or was it purely limited to rhetoric and soundbites?biggbn said:
Tory party really imploding here? I didn't think we could live in more 'interesting times' as the old Chinese curse suggests. Every day proves me wrong. I am a naive idealist who has huge hope, and confidence, in humanity's humanity. I'm glad my lived experience validates this feeling more than some vile individuals pursuing and promoting division to further their own agendas makes it seem unlikely.
You have seen nothing yet election campaign to follow. Both sides will be at it 
hstewie said:86 said:
Kermit power said:
86 said:
Electro1980 said:
Saying something repeatedly doesn’t make it true. Back your claim up that the police are afraid to do anything then, from reputable sources, I.e not some YouTuber or far right headbanger.
The only problem police have with racism is of their own making.
Here’s an article to get you frothing The only problem police have with racism is of their own making.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/02/23/the-cowar...
Hoyle allowed the watered down, less anti-Israeli Labour motion in because he was concerned that Labour MPs might've come under threat from Islamic extremists if they'd voted for it? How does that work then?
Of course it's not in any way more likely that Starmer - who has been fighting the anti-semitism that has existed in the Labour Party since forever but increased primarily with Israel's shift towards being more closely aligned with US-led right wing policies since the 90s - put pressure on to get an amendment he could push his party behind without letting the Conservatives use it to bring up the anti-semitism issues all over again, is it?
86 said:
biggbn said:
Tory party really imploding here? I didn't think we could live in more 'interesting times' as the old Chinese curse suggests. Every day proves me wrong. I am a naive idealist who has huge hope, and confidence, in humanity's humanity. I'm glad my lived experience validates this feeling more than some vile individuals pursuing and promoting division to further their own agendas makes it seem unlikely.
You have seen nothing yet election campaign to follow. Both sides will be at it 
NomduJour said:
Keith blackmailed Hoyle into accepting the Labour motion because he knew he was facing a load of his own extremist MPs voting for the SNP motion, and the risk of abstaining by the ones who don’t believe they’re there to represent Hamas - which would certainly get them grief from the idiots who somehow believe this is a major UK political concern.
Your second argument is more than a bit of a stretch.
Take a look at the history of anti-semitism in the Labour Party. There was quite a bit of it pre WW2 when Hitler was far from alone in the view that Jewish financiers were the enemy of the working class man.Your second argument is more than a bit of a stretch.
It then largely disappeared after the foundation of the State of Israel created a more left-leaning Zionism, and came back with a vengeance from the 90s onwards as Israel aligned more closely than ever with the States and moved to the right.
That's not to say that there aren't any in the Labour Party motivated by specific support for the Palestinians, but it is not fundamentally motivated by Islamic extremism in the Labour Party.
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Grrrrr Khan 
Khan is absolutely complicit in this with his tacit support of the weekly hate marches. Imagine being Jewish in today’s London and watching that performance every weekend.
Oakey said:
Yes, I brought this up in the other thread. Western populations (Europe for example) are in decline due to ageing and a declining birthrate. People aren't having kids because it's too expensive. So we need immigrants to keep the economy going. But this results in more pressure on housing, the NHS, GP's , dentists, schools, etc. There are 8 million on NHS waiting lists, it's weeks to get a GP appointment and forget any chance of seeing an NHS dentist, and that's just today. What's the situation like 10, 20, 30 years from now?
As for why Islam won't see a hefty decline in the next 150 years? Well it hasn't in the preceeding 1500+ years, has it? Besides which, the projections are based on low, medium and high levels of continued immigration from the Middle East whereas your point of view is, I suspect, coming from the scenario of someone moving here then two generations down the line their progeny have abandoned religion?
On the first point, you do realise that the people who work for the NHS also grow old, retire and need replacing, don't you? And that without the massive employment of immigrants in the NHS right since its inception, it would long since have collapsed? As for why Islam won't see a hefty decline in the next 150 years? Well it hasn't in the preceeding 1500+ years, has it? Besides which, the projections are based on low, medium and high levels of continued immigration from the Middle East whereas your point of view is, I suspect, coming from the scenario of someone moving here then two generations down the line their progeny have abandoned religion?
Also, that the demands placed on the NHS have increased massively because whilst life expectancy has increased dramatically in recent decades, healthy life expectancy has moved much more slowly, meaning far more pressure on the NHS.
The idea that the NHS is struggling primarily or even significantly because of immigration is simply incorrect Correlation rather than Causation.
On the second point, you've answered it for me!
You know that line from financial adverts, "past performance is not a guarantee of future performance"? If we were having this discussion 150 years ago, you'd be saying that there was no reason to expect Christianity in Europe to decline as it hadn't in the previous 1,850 years, but look at it now! That doesn't mean that Islam will experience a similar decline in the next 150 years, but it certainly makes the point that you cannot possibly assume to say whether or not it will.Lastly, your idea of continued immigration from the Middle East doesn't really make sense. Steps are already being taken to address the unsustainable issue with the ageing pensioner segment of society, plus the increase in life expectancy has plateaued, so there will be a natural decrease in the levels of immigration we need creating a pull, whilst on the push side, no war lasts forever, so you can't say with any degree of accuracy whether there will be a sustained flow of refugees from the Middle East for that long period.
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Grrrrr Khan
Khan is absolutely complicit in this with his tacit support of the weekly hate marches. Imagine being Jewish in today’s London and watching that performance every weekend.
Plenty of people protest about things I completely disagree with, but so long as the protests are not violent, we should support the right to protest.
86 said:
Electro1980 said:
Saying something repeatedly doesn’t make it true. Back your claim up that the police are afraid to do anything then, from reputable sources, I.e not some YouTuber or far right headbanger.
The only problem police have with racism is of their own making.
Here’s an article to get you frothing The only problem police have with racism is of their own making.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2024/02/23/the-cowar...
biggbn said:
NomduJour said:
Killboy said:
Grrrrr Khan
Khan is absolutely complicit in this with his tacit support of the weekly hate marches. Imagine being Jewish in today’s London and watching that performance every weekend.
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