Two Brits murdered in Florida.

[carmonk]

Jimbeaux said:

carmonk said:

andymadmak said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17492445

Seems everyone gets shot

Only difference is, when a white guy shoots a black guy the President himself feels the need to comment.

I thought that was totally unprofessional and embarrassing, amplified by the fact I think Obama usually exhibits a maturity sadly lacking in many US politicians. When he said that if he had a son he'd look like this guy I physically cringed. Surely if there's been some travesty of justice that Obama felt he needed to get involved with he should have got on the phone and given some orders, in private, not made some saccharine appeal in front of the world's press.

And whilst I'm at it I'm going to take the opportunity to do some well deserved BBC bashing. What a crock of ste their report was. I watched it twice and still had no idea what had happened. No factual information other than a white bloke had shot an unarmed black bloke. No background, no context, no other facts or even speculation. Pathetic.

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

I'd tend to agree with that.

andy_s said:

carmonk said:

I thought that was totally unprofessional and embarrassing, amplified by the fact I think Obama usually exhibits a maturity sadly lacking in many US politicians. When he said that if he had a son he'd look like this guy I physically cringed. Surely if there's been some travesty of justice that Obama felt he needed to get involved with he should have got on the phone and given some orders, in private, not made some saccharine appeal in front of the world's press.

And whilst I'm at it I'm going to take the opportunity to do some well deserved BBC bashing. What a crock of ste their report was. I watched it twice and still had no idea what had happened. No factual information other than a white bloke had shot an unarmed black bloke. No background, no context, no other facts or even speculation. Pathetic.

Maybe it touched a nerve with him in his context and he wanted to do something publicly about it and bring it to a larger stage, if you prefer deals to be done behind closed doors, fine, but you can't really determine whether his saccharine was sugar or not, him being a father and all.
I agree it's in poor taste to make political gains out of something tragic, but that happens everyday...


The reporting has been very poor on this from the beeb, I agree - there was a better article I read a few days ago which cast the shooter in a poor light to be honest, think paranoid over-zealous traffic warden with a gun sort of thing. The PD may also be shuffling their feet, but as laws exist which back all of this up, at least in a prima facia sort of way, then something like this is inevitable sooner or later - isn't that one of the reasons for our level of gun control/robust self-defence margins?

I don't think he did himself any favours there, it's too transparently politicial. Surely it would have been better if he'd stepped in behind the scenes got things moving before making any announcement (assuming an announcement was necessary, which I'm not at all sure about). If nothing happens now he'll look pretty weak on top of all the rest of the fiasco.

Hopefully more info (some info) will be released soon so we can better understand what actually happened, because right now it makes little sense.

TheHeretic said:

thehawk said:

TheHeretic said:

What being shirtless has to do with anything, I don't know.

Being shirtless is a vulgar and uncivilised act in itself. Complete lack of class and belies your upbringing. There are very few acceptable places to be publicly shirtless and these are mainly at beaches and swimming pools.

Additionally, I think it also appears as an act of aggression, certainly by most of the Chav looking shirtless losers who I see in the UK and many holiday spots abroad.

On what planet is that justification for robbing, or killing someone?

Planet I'm-trying-and-failing-to-look-clever?

[obob]

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

andy_s said:

Jimbeaux said:

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

Do you really think it was because of the colour and not the circumstances JB?

TBH yes. Not for Obama but the black community. You see, blacks kill one another here everyday at a very high proportion to % of population, yet there are no outcrys. There is even this "code of silence" problem that stifles the police efforts to solve murders. The black community is crying out nationwide because this was a white on black. The usual attention seekers like Al Sharpton, etc have shown up. So, to answer your question, color is a matter here for that sector of the community. As a result, Obama is speaking out as this is a highly visible issue and he needs their support. Some will call me racist here but it is a fact; sorry.

How is blacks killing blacks where it is treated as a crime in any way comparable to this? You'd think most people on here are disappointed there's an outcry.

Nope. I am disappointed that there is no cry when this happens black on black everyday with one being unarmed.

It's still not the same. If a black guy killed another black guy and the police just let himgo there'd be an outcry. Maybe not as much but what do you expect in a country with a history such as the US.

[JDRoest]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/03/awful-blac...

article said:

Two black youths chased a 13 year-old Kansas City student home from school doused him with gasoline and flicked a Bic at him. They were screaming, “This is what you deserve. You get what you deserve, white boy.”

I hear Al Sharpton has apologized for this and Obama called the kid's white parents.

Doh, sorry, parallel universe.

[andy_s]

JDRoest said:

I hear Al Sharpton has apologized for this and Obama called the kid's white parents.

Doh, sorry, parallel universe.

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

[Randy Winkman]

andy_s said:

JDRoest said:

I hear Al Sharpton has apologized for this and Obama called the kid's white parents.

Doh, sorry, parallel universe.

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

Some people aren't even trying to understand the case in question.

[alfaman]

andy_s said:

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

Absolutely - some jumped up neighborhood watch Rambo deliberately follows and shoots dead an unarmed child minding his own business. Then claims self defense !! Absolutely fking outrageous.

[obob]

alfaman said:

andy_s said:

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

Absolutely - some jumped up neighborhood watch Rambo deliberately follows and shoots dead an unarmed child minding his own business. Then claims self defense !! Absolutely fking outrageous.

No but its ok to kill black people, they would only end up killing themselves anyway.

[Jimbeaux]

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

andy_s said:

Jimbeaux said:

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

Do you really think it was because of the colour and not the circumstances JB?

TBH yes. Not for Obama but the black community. You see, blacks kill one another here everyday at a very high proportion to % of population, yet there are no outcrys. There is even this "code of silence" problem that stifles the police efforts to solve murders. The black community is crying out nationwide because this was a white on black. The usual attention seekers like Al Sharpton, etc have shown up. So, to answer your question, color is a matter here for that sector of the community. As a result, Obama is speaking out as this is a highly visible issue and he needs their support. Some will call me racist here but it is a fact; sorry.

How is blacks killing blacks where it is treated as a crime in any way comparable to this? You'd think most people on here are disappointed there's an outcry.

Nope. I am disappointed that there is no cry when this happens black on black everyday with one being unarmed.

It's still not the same. If a black guy killed another black guy and the police just let himgo there'd be an outcry. Maybe not as much but what do you expect in a country with a history such as the US.

That is the type of answer I would expect from someone who knows far less of this place than he thinke he does.

[Jimbeaux]

obob said:

alfaman said:

andy_s said:

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

Absolutely - some jumped up neighborhood watch Rambo deliberately follows and shoots dead an unarmed child minding his own business. Then claims self defense !! Absolutely fking outrageous.

No but its ok to kill black people, they would only end up killing themselves anyway.

You would miss a point if it was big as a barn. As I said a few posts ago, the killer should be banged up no questions. My point is the double standard of the black community killing one another at a very high rate and offering no help to the police while going on a natinwide tear for one killed by a Latino. Get it yet?

Edited by Jimbeaux on Saturday 24th March 21:44

[JDRoest]

Randy Winkman said:

Some people aren't even trying to understand the case in question.

And many some people are trying to work out what has happened before the investigation has really been completed.

The problem with this case is that it doesn't make much sense in the first place. Florida has prosecuted (as have other states) home owners for killing another person and thrown out the self defense as an excuse, so what is making this one different?

Poor old Barry is in a bind though - big hispanic population in Florida vs not quite so big black population in Florida. What to do when there are 29 college votes for the next election!???

[andy_s]

JDRoest said:

Poor old Barry is in a bind though - big hispanic population in Florida vs not quite so big black population in Florida. What to do when there are 29 college votes for the next election!???

Keep re-counting the results until you get what you want....?

[obob]

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

andy_s said:

Jimbeaux said:

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

Do you really think it was because of the colour and not the circumstances JB?

TBH yes. Not for Obama but the black community. You see, blacks kill one another here everyday at a very high proportion to % of population, yet there are no outcrys. There is even this "code of silence" problem that stifles the police efforts to solve murders. The black community is crying out nationwide because this was a white on black. The usual attention seekers like Al Sharpton, etc have shown up. So, to answer your question, color is a matter here for that sector of the community. As a result, Obama is speaking out as this is a highly visible issue and he needs their support. Some will call me racist here but it is a fact; sorry.

How is blacks killing blacks where it is treated as a crime in any way comparable to this? You'd think most people on here are disappointed there's an outcry.

Nope. I am disappointed that there is no cry when this happens black on black everyday with one being unarmed.

It's still not the same. If a black guy killed another black guy and the police just let himgo there'd be an outcry. Maybe not as much but what do you expect in a country with a history such as the US.

That is the type of answer I would expect from someone who knows far less of this place than he thinke he does.

Why don't you expand instead of putting a patronising smiley.

[carmonk]

alfaman said:

andy_s said:

Yeah but...

Gruesome though it is, the perpetrators presumably did not claim self-defence and get away scot free...which is the crux of the case in question.

Absolutely - some jumped up neighborhood watch Rambo deliberately follows and shoots dead an unarmed child minding his own business. Then claims self defense !! Absolutely fking outrageous.

Indeed, if that's what happened. Where are you getting your information from?

[andy_s]

carmonk said:

Indeed, if that's what happened. Where are you getting your information from?

Yeah - I'd wait out, over - there is a gap in which the event occured that is not covered in the press as far as I can see; there are pointers to an assumption that there was an unrighteous shooting followed by PD glossing over, but I've not seen detail of the incident itself.
Mind you, there are pretty big clues so far, is it normal that they drug test the body and not the shooter in these cases for example?*

(* - with the usual caveats/disclaimers)

[dvs_dave]

Jimbeaux said:

You would miss a poit if it was big as a barn. As I said a few posts ago, the killer should be banged up no questions. My point is the double standard of the black community killing one another at a very high rate and offering no help to the police while going on a natinwide tear for one killed by a Latino. Get it yet?

Shamelessly obvious double standards among the African American community? Since living here in Chicago which is a pretty segregated city, it's so blatant it's almost as though its part of the constitution.

For example a homeless black guy starts yelling heavily racist abuse at me down a busy street because I wouldn't give him any cash to feed his crack habit. However woe betide me yelling anything back at him with even a hint of racism. I'd be locked up and then deported!

It's almost as though it's not physically possible for a black person to be racist toward a white person......really boils my piss at times, an nobody has the balls to call people out on it for fear of being branded a racist even though it's clearly not the case.

[TheHeretic]

dvs_dave said:

Jimbeaux said:

You would miss a poit if it was big as a barn. As I said a few posts ago, the killer should be banged up no questions. My point is the double standard of the black community killing one another at a very high rate and offering no help to the police while going on a natinwide tear for one killed by a Latino. Get it yet?

Shamelessly obvious double standards among the African American community? Since living here in Chicago which is a pretty segregated city, it's so blatant it's almost as though its part of the constitution.

For example a homeless black guy starts yelling heavily racist abuse at me down a busy street because I wouldn't give him any cash to feed his crack habit. However woe betide me yelling anything back at him with even a hint of racism. I'd be locked up and then deported!

It's almost as though it's not physically possible for a black person to be racist toward a white person......really boils my piss at times, an nobody has the balls to call people out on it for fear of being branded a racist even though it's clearly not the case.

Afraid this is indeed the case. Nothing is worse than speaking to the cops in these communities.

[Jimbeaux]

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

andy_s said:

Jimbeaux said:

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

Do you really think it was because of the colour and not the circumstances JB?

TBH yes. Not for Obama but the black community. You see, blacks kill one another here everyday at a very high proportion to % of population, yet there are no outcrys. There is even this "code of silence" problem that stifles the police efforts to solve murders. The black community is crying out nationwide because this was a white on black. The usual attention seekers like Al Sharpton, etc have shown up. So, to answer your question, color is a matter here for that sector of the community. As a result, Obama is speaking out as this is a highly visible issue and he needs their support. Some will call me racist here but it is a fact; sorry.

How is blacks killing blacks where it is treated as a crime in any way comparable to this? You'd think most people on here are disappointed there's an outcry.

Nope. I am disappointed that there is no cry when this happens black on black everyday with one being unarmed.

It's still not the same. If a black guy killed another black guy and the police just let himgo there'd be an outcry. Maybe not as much but what do you expect in a country with a history such as the US.

That is the type of answer I would expect from someone who knows far less of this place than he thinke he does.

Why don't you expand instead of putting a patronising smiley.

You needing me to "expand" is indicative of why me doing so would be futile.

[Jimbeaux]

dvs_dave said:

Jimbeaux said:

You would miss a poit if it was big as a barn. As I said a few posts ago, the killer should be banged up no questions. My point is the double standard of the black community killing one another at a very high rate and offering no help to the police while going on a natinwide tear for one killed by a Latino. Get it yet?

Shamelessly obvious double standards among the African American community? Since living here in Chicago which is a pretty segregated city, it's so blatant it's almost as though its part of the constitution.

For example a homeless black guy starts yelling heavily racist abuse at me down a busy street because I wouldn't give him any cash to feed his crack habit. However woe betide me yelling anything back at him with even a hint of racism. I'd be locked up and then deported!

It's almost as though it's not physically possible for a black person to be racist toward a white person......really boils my piss at times, an nobody has the balls to call people out on it for fear of being branded a racist even though it's clearly not the case.

This is true. You will find, however, that people have about had enough of this. You note that me doing so is already drawing out those here calling me a racist, albeit in the usual high brow fashion.

[Jimbeaux]

mikele pirelli said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

obob said:

Jimbeaux said:

andy_s said:

Jimbeaux said:

There were countless unarmed blacks shot on the same day but by other blacks; therefore, the political usefulness of those are non-existent. This one however, can be of use to Obama.

Do you really think it was because of the colour and not the circumstances JB?

TBH yes. Not for Obama but the black community. You see, blacks kill one another here everyday at a very high proportion to % of population, yet there are no outcrys. There is even this "code of silence" problem that stifles the police efforts to solve murders. The black community is crying out nationwide because this was a white on black. The usual attention seekers like Al Sharpton, etc have shown up. So, to answer your question, color is a matter here for that sector of the community. As a result, Obama is speaking out as this is a highly visible issue and he needs their support. Some will call me racist here but it is a fact; sorry.

How is blacks killing blacks where it is treated as a crime in any way comparable to this? You'd think most people on here are disappointed there's an outcry.

Nope. I am disappointed that there is no cry when this happens black on black everyday with one being unarmed.

It's still not the same. If a black guy killed another black guy and the police just let himgo there'd be an outcry. Maybe not as much but what do you expect in a country with a history such as the US.

That is the type of answer I would expect from someone who knows far less of this place than he thinke he does.

Ok Jim , I'll bite. I've spent a fair amount of time in the States. I
did some of my training there. Mainly , Fremont and San Jose ( Silicon
Valley ) CA, and also down in Austin and Houston TX. I've been in NYC
and Chicago and San Fran.

None of this gives me the credentials of a US citizen, But it perhaps
does give me an objective viewpoint from an outsider.
It seems to me the US is still a deeply divided society on racial
grounds. I am (just) old enough to remember the Kennedys, MLK , Alabama
civil rights, Vietnam as it was happening. It's a miracle you have a
black man in the White House. no ?

How many black students are enrolling for the Ancient Eight ? MIT ?
Holidaying ( sorry, vacationing ) in Nantucket and Cape Cod ?
I'd hazard a guess not too many, to this point at least. It seems to
me the US is run by Ivy League WASP's for WASP's.

From my experience of the States, I'm grateful I wasn't born poor
and black in Inglewood or similar. I'm not slaughtering your country,
I think America has some fantastic qualities. We have all the same
issues here.
But, they are polarised by a factor of 10 in the US, imo. I don't know
how you solve it .... ?

So, what exactly is it that we are failing to comprehend and
understand fully ?

( you can call me a bleeding heart Liberal now )

Edited by mikele pirelli on Saturday 24th March 18:57

These are good questions. Please allow me time to return later and give the answer the time it deserves; I am otherwise engaged today. I will answer later!

[JDRoest]

mikele pirelli said:

How many black students are enrolling for the Ancient Eight ? MIT ?
Holidaying ( sorry, vacationing ) in Nantucket and Cape Cod ?
I'd hazard a guess not too many, to this point at least. It seems to
me the US is run by Ivy League WASP's for WASP's.

From my experience of the States, I'm grateful I wasn't born poor
and black in Inglewood or similar.

Went to graduation at Jacksonville State University late last year, and I can assure you that the black community is not under-represented in a poor northern Alabama area. Far from it in fact.

I'd say that the only racist thing I saw was how black people (not family members) only cheered the black graduates. If the white audience had only ever cheered white graduates, there would have been hell to pay. You tell me where racism stands these days.