North Korea - how serious should we take them?
Discussion
cirian75 said:
longshot said:
Zyp said:
Probably a daft idea, but could IS ever get pally enough with NK to buy this sort of weapon?
They allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Surely even he isn't that stupid. I hope not anywayThey allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Is he insane though?
The military bluster and testing of weapons is essential to the Kim hold on power domestically.
North Korean communism is weird and unlike Russian or Chinese (because if there is one thing the far left LOVE - it is theory.
Both of the latter are mopre typical Marxist namely they followed the progress of history as predicted by Karl Marx. That is to say fuedal/peasant/agrarian society - industrialisation and capitalism - communism.
Unfortunately North Korea rather missed out this middle step and its not something that ever sat 100% easily with USSR and China and has always meant they are imperfect bed fellows.
North Korean communism depends A LOT of Confucian traditions, especially the repayment of moral debts.
Namely: The Kim's need to make out like the world is against them, and sabre rattling is all part of their 'protecting' of the people, thus maintaining the moral debt they first established upon 'liberating' them. There is of course the more practical elements such as the N. Korean people fearing what lies outside, because they have always been taught to and never exposed to anything else.
Obviously they also rely on more traditional state intimidation aspects as well, but the above issue is uniquely N. Korean, and this sort of thing is an element in maintaining it.
- Also, I think the Kim regime would likely see IS as an equally big threat to them as well, they are as intolerant on outside influences as their culture as each other. If they don't take the western dollar in the form of aid, I can't see them taking the IS dollar.
They aren't short of money for their military really, the reason the country is a failed state economically is that the military is all they spend their money on.
Brutal yes. Curel, yes. Immoral, yes.
But is the driver insanity or the knowing exactly how the system is built to function?
(I'm not ruling the former out at all - but I am wary of taking anything in Politics at face value)
The military bluster and testing of weapons is essential to the Kim hold on power domestically.
North Korean communism is weird and unlike Russian or Chinese (because if there is one thing the far left LOVE - it is theory.
Both of the latter are mopre typical Marxist namely they followed the progress of history as predicted by Karl Marx. That is to say fuedal/peasant/agrarian society - industrialisation and capitalism - communism.
Unfortunately North Korea rather missed out this middle step and its not something that ever sat 100% easily with USSR and China and has always meant they are imperfect bed fellows.
North Korean communism depends A LOT of Confucian traditions, especially the repayment of moral debts.
Namely: The Kim's need to make out like the world is against them, and sabre rattling is all part of their 'protecting' of the people, thus maintaining the moral debt they first established upon 'liberating' them. There is of course the more practical elements such as the N. Korean people fearing what lies outside, because they have always been taught to and never exposed to anything else.
Obviously they also rely on more traditional state intimidation aspects as well, but the above issue is uniquely N. Korean, and this sort of thing is an element in maintaining it.
- Also, I think the Kim regime would likely see IS as an equally big threat to them as well, they are as intolerant on outside influences as their culture as each other. If they don't take the western dollar in the form of aid, I can't see them taking the IS dollar.
They aren't short of money for their military really, the reason the country is a failed state economically is that the military is all they spend their money on.
Brutal yes. Curel, yes. Immoral, yes.
But is the driver insanity or the knowing exactly how the system is built to function?
(I'm not ruling the former out at all - but I am wary of taking anything in Politics at face value)
Esseesse said:
cirian75 said:
longshot said:
Zyp said:
Probably a daft idea, but could IS ever get pally enough with NK to buy this sort of weapon?
They allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Surely even he isn't that stupid. I hope not anywayThey allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
cirian75 said:
turbobloke said:
how long will it be China finally does something about this loon?He is plainly beyond their control and getting more and more dangerous each day
North Korean as a buffer has become a liability.
All they are interested in is keeping the exports going out and the cash coming in. Pie boy serves as a useful distraction as China carries on with it's illegal island complex in the South China Sea, the draining of the worlds mineral supplies, flooding the global markets with cheap steel, and the supression of internet access and free speech.
That's before we discuss their heavy involvement in assisting Iran build a nuclear bomb, which Iran said it wasn't building, but we still had to negotiate a deal over - even though it wasn't happening.....
Cobnapint said:
I wouldn't trust any anti-NK statements coming out of the Chinese, it's just a bit of global lip service to fool the West into thinking China is a westward leaning ally.
All they are interested in is keeping the exports going out and the cash coming in. Pie boy serves as a useful distraction as China carries on with it's illegal island complex in the South China Sea, the draining of the worlds mineral supplies, flooding the global markets with cheap steel, and the supression of internet access and free speech.
That's before we discuss their heavy involvement in assisting Iran build a nuclear bomb, which Iran said it wasn't building, but we still had to negotiate a deal over - even though it wasn't happening.....
I would argue your first sentence contradicts the rest.All they are interested in is keeping the exports going out and the cash coming in. Pie boy serves as a useful distraction as China carries on with it's illegal island complex in the South China Sea, the draining of the worlds mineral supplies, flooding the global markets with cheap steel, and the supression of internet access and free speech.
That's before we discuss their heavy involvement in assisting Iran build a nuclear bomb, which Iran said it wasn't building, but we still had to negotiate a deal over - even though it wasn't happening.....
China are no particular ally - and I don't think pretend to be. But they are so busy making money these days (on the various schemes you go on to mention) why on earth would they want regional instability?
It'd be like having a bunch of important business contacts over for dinner, and secretly hoping that your fat, uncouth cousin who you got lumbered into caring for for family reasons punches them in the groin and widdles in their soup
Cobnapint said:
The point I'm trying to make is that the North Korean leader's continued extreme t
tiness gives China continued opportunities to 'appear' to be the rational one and thus maintain it's valuable trade relationship with the rest of the world while secretly supporting the regime.
It's also a distraction from their land grab in the South China Sea.tiness gives China continued opportunities to 'appear' to be the rational one and thus maintain it's valuable trade relationship with the rest of the world while secretly supporting the regime.Cobnapint said:
The point I'm trying to make is that the North Korean leader's continued extreme ttiness gives China continued opportunities to 'appear' to be the rational one and thus maintain it's valuable trade relationship with the rest of the world while secretly supporting the regime.
No doubt that is part of it, the west has a short attention span, nobody worries about Somali pirates anymore, now it is IS, next week it will be someone else. But North Korea is a permanent problem which the Chinese can keep ticking over as a distraction.tiness gives China continued opportunities to 'appear' to be the rational one and thus maintain it's valuable trade relationship with the rest of the world while secretly supporting the regime.They probably do regard him a dog that has it's uses but could end up in the pot if need be.
We need a Korean Spring.
Zod said:
Esseesse said:
cirian75 said:
longshot said:
Zyp said:
Probably a daft idea, but could IS ever get pally enough with NK to buy this sort of weapon?
They allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Surely even he isn't that stupid. I hope not anywayThey allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Esseesse said:
Zod said:
Esseesse said:
cirian75 said:
longshot said:
Zyp said:
Probably a daft idea, but could IS ever get pally enough with NK to buy this sort of weapon?
They allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Surely even he isn't that stupid. I hope not anywayThey allegedly have enough cash to possibly entice the Chunky one.
Non story - North Korea wants some attention. Nothing new. IS have the world spotlight at the moment and Kim feels left out so makes claims that realistically due to the highly secretive nature of the state no one can corroborate.
He is just hoping that he gets more UN aid to calm him down and in the process he can look like a badass in front of his 23 million indoctrinated country men.
The guy is an idiot and pretty much the rest of the world leaders know it as well - if he honestly posed any real threat his regime would crumble over night either from external forces who want him out or internal forces that think they can do a better job.
China would also be the biggest looser if NK collapses as their borders will be flooded with refugees. So its in their interest to maintain stability even if that means entertaining an idiot leader - if they can fleece him on trade deals at the same time then winner!
He is just hoping that he gets more UN aid to calm him down and in the process he can look like a badass in front of his 23 million indoctrinated country men.
The guy is an idiot and pretty much the rest of the world leaders know it as well - if he honestly posed any real threat his regime would crumble over night either from external forces who want him out or internal forces that think they can do a better job.
China would also be the biggest looser if NK collapses as their borders will be flooded with refugees. So its in their interest to maintain stability even if that means entertaining an idiot leader - if they can fleece him on trade deals at the same time then winner!
Gandahar said:
No doubt that is part of it, the west has a short attention span, nobody worries about Somali pirates anymore, now it is IS, next week it will be someone else. But North Korea is a permanent problem which the Chinese can keep ticking over as a distraction.
They probably do regard him a dog that has it's uses but could end up in the pot if need be.
We need a Korean Spring.
The Chinese will use him as the West used our pups/rabid dogs in the Middle East .They probably do regard him a dog that has it's uses but could end up in the pot if need be.
We need a Korean Spring.
Clinton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed...
The same crap Barry Hussein has recently come out with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embed...
The same crap Barry Hussein has recently come out with
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