Policing of pro Palestinian marches

[Vanden Saab]

ZedLeg said:

We have even less ability to influence Hamas than our own government, by your own logic pointless.

Imagine the universal support for their cause if they actually did call for Hamas to release the hostages. There is only one reason why they do not. We all know it even you.

[ZedLeg]

Say it then.

[Oliver Hardy]

2xChevrons said:

Oliver Hardy said:

Why are there no protests against Russia?

"What do we want?"
"For the West to do exactly what it's doing!"
"When do we want it?"
"As it has been for the past two years!"

Yes, there could be demonstrations for the purpose of just sticking it to Russia and/or showing solidarity with Ukraine and other border countries. Do enough people feel that strongly about it to do so, though?

It would be foolish to deny that Israel/Palestine is a particularly charged issue - politically, culturally, religiously etc. It's a nexus for all sorts of wider issues be that imperialism, nationalism, ethnic identity, human rights, genocide, the armaments industry, religion, religious fundamentalism, democracy and so on and on.

West has been far to slow and to scared in the pat two years. US is currently with holding supplies to Ukraine.

Was there any protests when Russia was dropping Chemical weapons on Syrians?

Why is no one protesting aboutr what China is doing to minorities or to Hong Kong?

Edited by Oliver Hardy on Monday 11th March 15:18

[ZedLeg]

Just to show how silly this kind of whataboutism is, here’s a video of a pro ukraine protest in London from last month.

https://youtu.be/4Vu35Ff0cKM?si=xzqXK5fHxLSuZFjD

[Unreal]

2xChevrons said:

Unreal said:

We have picked a side and when people don't like the government's choice we are told that every five years we can vote to let our feelings be known. In the meantime, my understanding is that we have to live with the choices governments make on our behalf.

So demonstrations, protests, campaigns etc. are not only pointless but apparently illegitimate? If a government does something you disagree with then just shut up and wait for election time?

That's not really democracy, is it? It shouldn't be something that only happens at five-year intervals on the basis of people voting for one person to represent their area nationally. It should be - and really is - something that happens continually at every level. If it's not then it's not in the slightest bit meaningful, and smacks of banana republics where El Presidente graciously allows the people to vote every now and then but they'd better keep quiet and do what they're told in between.

But then (and this is relevant to 'policing pro Palestinian Marches') the government's Commissioner for Countering Extremism is saying things like "the government should move faster, be bolder and be willing to accept higher legal risk if it means implementing policies that keep us safer.".

I haven't heard anyone say that demonstrations, protests and campaigns are pointless and illegitimate but I have heard people express the view I posted. Sometimes those demonstrations, protests and campaigns are ignored or even suppressed, as in the case of covid-19 policy dissenters, sometimes they are taken into account, such as with the Windrush campaign. I guess there's a point at which governments must claim the authority to decide policy or there would be an insoluble problem in terms of at what point it should be altered as a result of protests, etc.

Regardless of that, the coming election is a very good opportunity for people to try and pin the parties down on their Gaza/israel policy before they are elected/re-elected. It doesn't seem unreasonable to demand details and manifesto commitments from them on such an important issue.

[President Merkin]

Unreal said:

I haven't heard anyone say that demonstrations, protests and campaigns are pointless

Chap on literally the previous page saying exactly that.

[Unreal]

President Merkin said:

Unreal said:

I haven't heard anyone say that demonstrations, protests and campaigns are pointless

Chap on literally the previous page saying exactly that.

Fine. Chap is entitled to his opinion. I didn't see it. Depends on the subject and nature of those things but I wouldn't generally agree, any more than I would say they offer any guarantee of bringing about change.

The current timing is interesting. There might be more scope to change when then there is an imminent election and prospective MPs will not be able to hide behind a five year term. I'll certainly be asking my local candidates for their views on how the UK should be involved going forward.

[Vanden Saab]

ZedLeg said:

Just to show how silly this kind of whataboutism is, here’s a video of a pro ukraine protest in London from last month.

https://youtu.be/4Vu35Ff0cKM?si=xzqXK5fHxLSuZFjD

Nobody dressed in terroist uniforms, they really haven't got the hang of it have they.

[2xChevrons]

Unreal said:

I haven't heard anyone say that demonstrations, protests and campaigns are pointless and illegitimate but I have heard people express the view I posted. Sometimes those demonstrations, protests and campaigns are ignored or even suppressed, as in the case of covid-19 policy dissenters, sometimes they are taken into account, such as with the Windrush campaign. I guess there's a point at which governments must claim the authority to decide policy or there would be an insoluble problem in terms of at what point it should be altered as a result of protests, etc.

Regardless of that, the coming election is a very good opportunity for people to try and pin the parties down on their Gaza/israel policy before they are elected/re-elected. It doesn't seem unreasonable to demand details and manifesto commitments from them on such an important issue.

Bolded bit: I mean, yes!? That's how governments generally work. I'm not saying that a government shouldn't decide, or should immediately bend to the cause of whatever group happened to be gathered in Whitehall that weekend. The absolute opposite - governments should be principled, morally courageous and willing to take a stand. At some time they have to decide on a course of action. But once the course has been decided, that doesn't mean that all political activities must cease. If you disagree with the course then why shouldn't you campaign, consult, organise, demonstrate, protest etc.? People should also be principled, morally courageous and willing to take a stand

And I agree on the second para. But the two are not mutually exclusive or contradictory.

[fizz47]

Vanden Saab said:

Nobody dressed in terroist uniforms, they really haven't got the hang of it have they.

What’s a terriorist uninform ?

[ZedLeg]

Terriorist outfit

[Oakey]

I always had suspicions about that HMV dog

[F22GRN]

Countdown said:

This is a form of lobbying and you don't just stop because "somebody's asked a question". The stuff about "jewish people being afraid to walk the streets" is the latest line of BS in an attempt to get the protests shut down, along with trying to get various things made illegal.

Quite frankly your attitude about Jews fear is disgusting. Seek to understand before wishing to be understood. I doubt you’ve done that.

[bitchstewie]

Interesting thread and article on BBC Verify coverage.

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1769274923292217636?s...

https://david-collier.com/bbc-news-unaccountable/?...

I know nothing about David Collier so I'm taking it at face value that he doesn't turn out to be someone totally discredited etc.

[Countdown]

bhstewie said:

Interesting thread and article on BBC Verify coverage.

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1769274923292217636?s...

https://david-collier.com/bbc-news-unaccountable/?...

I know nothing about David Collier so I'm taking it at face value that he doesn't turn out to be someone totally discredited etc.

From what I can see 100% of his articles seem to be in defense of Israel. That would suggest he's not unbiased. Google suggests he's a supporter of the Jewish National Fund which actively raises money for new Settlements

[ZedLeg]

Did he cover the NYT hiring zionists with no journalistic experience to work on it’s oct 7th coverage?

[rscott]

bhstewie said:

Interesting thread and article on BBC Verify coverage.

https://x.com/mishtal/status/1769274923292217636?s...

https://david-collier.com/bbc-news-unaccountable/?...

I know nothing about David Collier so I'm taking it at face value that he doesn't turn out to be someone totally discredited etc.

The only evidence he posted that a BBC source was somehow biased was a tweet in 2018 from them asking Shakira not to pay a gig in Tel Aviv.

[bitchstewie]

Swastikas disturbing public order now depend on context

https://x.com/emilykschrader/status/17741212986139...

[768]

It does depend on context.

But holding a sign with one on at a public march in the UK is plenty of context as far as I'm concerned.

[Vanden Saab]

768 said:

It does depend on context.

But holding a sign with one on at a public march in the UK is plenty of context as far as I'm concerned.

The context here would be it was at an anti-israel march.
There will still be some cloth eared fools supporting the marches though with no understanding of what they represent. As for the Met they are so far down the rabbithole I doubt there is a way out.