Scotland after the vote
Discussion
NoNeed said:
Edinburger said:
NoNeed said:
Edinburger said:
Ooh, my finger is hovering over the 'report' button for your insinuation that a 20th century national socialist dictator's anti-semitism has anything to do with Scottish nationalism. Fancy a break in the sin bin??
I haven't done anything but state the obvious fact that Hitler hated Jews as well.We know there is a long history between the SNP and Israel, it isn't a secret that they banned all publications from the Jewish state. but report away if you wish.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/247880/Fury-as-co...
Virtually every political party / country has something they're not proud of.
You seem to think it is OK to just dish out abuse that name calling like the d
head word you have also used in the last hour is OK, I don't. It is why I visit PH because it tends to take a tough line on these things which keep the site pleasant to use.You seem to be immune to the usually level of moderation so I will no longer report your insults and trolling to the mods and will instead go to PH management like the snivelling little sod I am.
Seriously?
It is not only today that I have entered the debate. I've been a regular contributor to this debate on the main thread for two or three years.
Perhaps I'm tust tired of your abusive posting and name changing so I have little regard or respect for you or your thoughts.
Oh, and just for the avoidance of doubt I. AM. NOT. A. TROLL.
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
fblm said:
arp1 said:
Why is the phrases 'nationalists' and 'nationalism' seem to have this bad and derisory feel to it by fellow ph'ers? Those no voters are nothing but uk nationalists spouting uk nationalism ideals...
Call it irrational xenophobia then if it makes you feel better. It seems to be a pretty standard reaction that the power hungry have always been able to rely on to manipulate the dim. For the last f
king time (and I don't swear much) the Scottish political situation is not xenophobic or racist or anti-English or anti-anything.Seriously, get over that. Look at volumes 1 and 2 of the main thread if you still need educated about that.
Jeez.
Nationalists, most irritating and conniving people on the planet I think , mostly because they are so stupid as to think the rest of us can't see what they are trying to do - its really quite insulting! Then again, it further demonstrates that pigs
t is, generically, probably more intelligent!Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 20th August 20:37
It's a a very odd statement to make to say that nationalists are irritating and conniving - some of the most successful cou ntries in the world are proudly nationalist.
Wombat - I posted the below in the main thread earlier. Any thoughts?
Edinburger said:
With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.
There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.
Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.
Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.
There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.
Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.
Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger - as you seem to be in a debating mood these days.
Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
Yes, I do. Economies of scale. Many things would be more expensive in an independent Scotland.Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
What about John Swinney writing in secret that after 4 years of independence. The Scottish Government would not be able to afford to pay benefits - and those would have to be cut. Similarly - the amounts Scotland would spend on defence would also be cut.
My questions to you are:
a/ Do you accept what John Swinney wrote was the truth?
b/ How can an independent Scotland be more wealthy and prosperous - if John Swinney says it does not have the funds to pay the same amount on benefits as is being paid now?
Edinburger said:
Oh, and just for the avoidance of doubt I. AM. NOT. A. TROLL.
But yes seriously, this isn't the lound or the joke thread it is a serious issue that is taken seriously by so many people which is why I think that being abusive or trolling has no place here.
We can start a thread in the lounge if you want an england v scotland banter page, but this for me isn't the place.
P.S I was going to add an edit to the above post which doesn't matter now as I have said it here.
Edinburger said:
I have more confidence than you suggest, but political games on such an important asset won't impact my analysis of the situation.
So what's your analysis? What makes your analysis better than 'the most influential in the Scottish oil industry'. The bloke who Salmond has praised in the past. Is your analysis secret?Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger - as you seem to be in a debating mood these days.
Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
Yes, I do. Economies of scale. Many things would be more expensive in an independent Scotland.Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
What about John Swinney writing in secret that after 4 years of independence. The Scottish Government would not be able to afford to pay benefits - and those would have to be cut. Similarly - the amounts Scotland would spend on defence would also be cut.
My questions to you are:
a/ Do you accept what John Swinney wrote was the truth?
b/ How can an independent Scotland be more wealthy and prosperous - if John Swinney says it does not have the funds to pay the same amount on benefits as is being paid now?
Do you have a source for that comment by John Swinnet so I can see it in full?
NoNeed said:
Edinburger said:
Oh, and just for the avoidance of doubt I. AM. NOT. A. TROLL.
But yes seriously, this isn't the lound or the joke thread it is a serious issue that is taken seriously by so many people which is why I think that being abusive or trolling has no place here.
We can start a thread in the lounge if you want an england v scotland banter page, but this for me isn't the place.
P.S I was going to add an edit to the above post which doesn't matter now as I have said it here.
Serious note though, yes I have recently and do sometimes post flippant comments which may be a bit light on content and annoying but that's just down to time constraints. Speaking of which, I need to head out now as I'm meeting a friend at 9. Cheers.
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger said:
Troubleatmill said:
Edinburger - as you seem to be in a debating mood these days.
Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
Yes, I do. Economies of scale. Many things would be more expensive in an independent Scotland.Do you accept that food will be more expensive in an independent Scotland? (Source: All the major supermarkets who say it will )
What about John Swinney writing in secret that after 4 years of independence. The Scottish Government would not be able to afford to pay benefits - and those would have to be cut. Similarly - the amounts Scotland would spend on defence would also be cut.
My questions to you are:
a/ Do you accept what John Swinney wrote was the truth?
b/ How can an independent Scotland be more wealthy and prosperous - if John Swinney says it does not have the funds to pay the same amount on benefits as is being paid now?
Do you have a source for that comment by John Swinnet so I can see it in full?
http://b.3cdn.net/better/c1d14076ee08022eec_u9m6vd...
News articles: Google John Swinney secret memo.
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/explosiv...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-...
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-...
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-dos...
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/features/columnists/...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/99...
The list is endless.
It was huge news in the press.
Next question
Do you agree what John Swinney is writing is very different to what he says in public?
Edited by Troubleatmill on Wednesday 20th August 21:09
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
If not, why vote no?
arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
Read my post above. Report back with your trust in Swinney If not, why vote no?
John Swinney says - More benefits, more this more that etc etc.
John Swinney writes in secret to cabinet colleagues. Cut pensions, cut defence, cut public sector workers.
Does this sit well with you?
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
fblm said:
arp1 said:
Why is the phrases 'nationalists' and 'nationalism' seem to have this bad and derisory feel to it by fellow ph'ers? Those no voters are nothing but uk nationalists spouting uk nationalism ideals...
Call it irrational xenophobia then if it makes you feel better. It seems to be a pretty standard reaction that the power hungry have always been able to rely on to manipulate the dim. For the last f
king time (and I don't swear much) the Scottish political situation is not xenophobic or racist or anti-English or anti-anything.Seriously, get over that. Look at volumes 1 and 2 of the main thread if you still need educated about that.
Jeez.
Nationalists, most irritating and conniving people on the planet I think , mostly because they are so stupid as to think the rest of us can't see what they are trying to do - its really quite insulting! Then again, it further demonstrates that pigs
t is, generically, probably more intelligent!Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 20th August 20:37
Troubleatmill said:
arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
Read my post above. Report back with your trust in Swinney If not, why vote no?
John Swinney says - More benefits, more this more that etc etc.
John Swinney writes in secret to cabinet colleagues. Cut pensions, cut defence, cut public sector workers.
Does this sit well with you?
arp1 said:
Troubleatmill said:
arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
Read my post above. Report back with your trust in Swinney If not, why vote no?
John Swinney says - More benefits, more this more that etc etc.
John Swinney writes in secret to cabinet colleagues. Cut pensions, cut defence, cut public sector workers.
Does this sit well with you?
t - the last lot left us no money. Time for some major austerity." - They are honest about it. Swinney has not been honest. Read the report.Swinney is planning major cuts in Scotland. Westminster is not.
If there are cuts in an independent Scotland that would not be a surprise, however more cuts are coming our way anyway so what's the difference? The difference is who do you trust more to manage our affairs? Us or them?! You trust Cameron? Must be off your nut associating yourself with that bunch in parliament, laughing their socks off at our expense!
arp1 said:
If there are cuts in an independent Scotland that would not be a surprise, however more cuts are coming our way anyway so what's the difference? The difference is who do you trust more to manage our affairs? Us or them?! You trust Cameron? Must be off your nut associating yourself with that bunch in parliament, laughing their socks off at our expense!
I didn't say that - I said they were more honest. Read the report.
All the Yes camp have to do is provide a congruent economic argument ( which they have failed to do ) which stands scrutiny - then I'm sure everyone would be on board.
That's it. Simples.
arp1 said:
If there are cuts in an independent Scotland that would not be a surprise, however more cuts are coming our way anyway so what's the difference? The difference is who do you trust more to manage our affairs? Us or them?! You trust Cameron? Must be off your nut associating yourself with that bunch in parliament, laughing their socks off at our expense!
I thought a 'yes' vote wasn't a vote for Salmond or the SNP, so how is a 'no' vote putting your trust in Cameron? Double standards.Anyway, about those figures showing Scotland is not subsidised by the UK. You seem pretty certain about it so must have them to hand.
Remember not to cheat by giving Scotland all the oil revenue, because since you are now part of the UK, those oil revenues are shared by the UK. Just as Scotland shares tax revenues from London.
arp1 said:
Figures not to hand (obviously) but don't believe the media hype etc... Listen to yourselves though, is this the way you want your country run? By others? Vote no for some (apparent) powers, vote yes for ALL powers. There it is, simples!
To make an informed decision - you really need to look at the numbers and understand them.If you cannot understand them - ask someone what it means.
This will be the biggest political decision of your life.
Do your own research.
This is really important.
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