Scotland after the vote
Discussion
arp1 said:
Figures not to hand (obviously) but don't believe the media hype etc... Listen to yourselves though, is this the way you want your country run? By others? Vote no for some (apparent) powers, vote yes for ALL powers. There it is, simples!
The figures are on your own f
king governments website!arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
I trust salmond to do what ever it takes, no matter the cost, to get himself a badge that says "in charge of independent Scotland". Beyond that I'd more likely trust Idi Amin (other dictators are available) to run Scotland in a manner befitting the needs of the Scots, let alone Cameron.If not, why vote no?
arp1 said:
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
fblm said:
arp1 said:
Why is the phrases 'nationalists' and 'nationalism' seem to have this bad and derisory feel to it by fellow ph'ers? Those no voters are nothing but uk nationalists spouting uk nationalism ideals...
Call it irrational xenophobia then if it makes you feel better. It seems to be a pretty standard reaction that the power hungry have always been able to rely on to manipulate the dim. For the last f
king time (and I don't swear much) the Scottish political situation is not xenophobic or racist or anti-English or anti-anything.Seriously, get over that. Look at volumes 1 and 2 of the main thread if you still need educated about that.
Jeez.
Scottish Nationalists, most irritating and conniving people on the planet I think , mostly because they are so stupid as to think the rest of us can't see what they are trying to do - its really quite insulting! Then again, it further demonstrates that pigs
t is, generically, probably more intelligent!Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 20th August 20:37
Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 20th August 23:08
arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
Yes but this is about independence for Scotland, not about rUK's trust in Westminster. Why is it that whenever somebody highlights a glaring flaw in the argument for independence that the Yes camp have to go back to resorting to deflection tactics by telling us how bad Westminster is, rather than addressing the point raised.If not, why vote no?
Edited by Jonc on Wednesday 20th August 22:59
arp1 said:
To all the yes bashers, do you trust westminister in its entirety, trust it to run your affairs in a correct and fair manner? Do you trust David Cameron et al. in their capacity to run the affairs of the country in a fair and abject manner? Do you trust them to run Scotland's affairs in a manner befitting the needs of the Scottish people?
If not, why vote no?
I don't trust any politicians completely, but I do trust the ones in Westminster a hell of a lot more than the ones at Holyrood. The SNP will tell people anything to get independence, if they had been honest about the risks and dangers of independence they might have stood a chance of a yes vote. How is that benefitting the needs of Scottish people pretending everything will be perfect?If not, why vote no?
Edinburger said:
Wombat3 said:
Edinburger said:
fblm said:
arp1 said:
Why is the phrases 'nationalists' and 'nationalism' seem to have this bad and derisory feel to it by fellow ph'ers? Those no voters are nothing but uk nationalists spouting uk nationalism ideals...
Call it irrational xenophobia then if it makes you feel better. It seems to be a pretty standard reaction that the power hungry have always been able to rely on to manipulate the dim. For the last f
king time (and I don't swear much) the Scottish political situation is not xenophobic or racist or anti-English or anti-anything.Seriously, get over that. Look at volumes 1 and 2 of the main thread if you still need educated about that.
Jeez.
Nationalists, most irritating and conniving people on the planet I think , mostly because they are so stupid as to think the rest of us can't see what they are trying to do - its really quite insulting! Then again, it further demonstrates that pigs
t is, generically, probably more intelligent!Edited by Wombat3 on Wednesday 20th August 20:37
It's a a very odd statement to make to say that nationalists are irritating and conniving - some of the most successful cou ntries in the world are proudly nationalist.
t Salmond even thought to make some kind of link with it by issuing a second DoA. Why not call it the Declaration of Doune or the Declaration of Kilmarnock? Oh no, its a 2nd Declaration of Arbroath. Why? WHat was the reason for choosing Arbroath?Simple - it causes everyone to look at the first one & what it said.
And once again, how f
king dim do you think the rest of us are? Frankly , its insulting!And re the phrase "nationalists" - see the EFA in my post above - again, just for you too.
Edinburger said:
Wombat - I posted the below in the main thread earlier. Any thoughts?
Thoughts on that? Yes, a load of bEdinburger said:
With respect, I think that's a silly and somewhat naive thing to say.
There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.
Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.
Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.
There are various styles of 'nationalism'. What we're seeing in Scotland isn't ethnic or purity nationalism - far from it. It's civic nationalism and I don't see why that's a bad thing. After all, several successful countries including the US, China, South Korea, Japan, Turkey, Brazil and I'm sure several others openly practice and celebrate their nationalism.
Some clown will come along soon and start talking about national socialism a.k.a. nazism, but that's not what we're seeing emerge in Scotland.
Now - and this is not a criticism - I can see why English people struggle with the concept of nationalism. In my view, England lost it's cultural identity in the 20th century and English people don't celebrate their national identity and I find that sad. But some other countries do, including Scotland. And I don't think it's a bad thing at all.
ks. Try going to Twickenham ( especially during a Calcutta cup match) & you'll see plenty of passionate English people.That said, The English approach is also much more accepting and far less narrow minded that say, oh, the Scot Nats (just to pick a random example) in respect of being a citizen of the UK.
Your lot would be whinging like f
k about how unfair it all was if , for example, the referendum was actually being held in England for English independence from the UK i.e ditching the troublesome whinging & expensive northern socialists.Then again, now that I think about it your lot whinge like f
k over just about everything !arp1 said:
Look at the English whinging about Scotland though... Oh you get free this, free that, ooh we subsidise you etc etc etc... Whinging is it not? 
Does not even begin to compare with the victim culture of you & yours (specifically when you are the beneficiaries of so much at the expense of so many).You (Scots) Nationalists represent about 3% of the UK population & when this is done and you lose, somebody (everybody else) really needs to tell you to f
k off, shut up , knuckle down, get on with life & stop fking complaining - much like the rest of us do because really, You just arn't that different & you certainly arn't that special. Meanwhile, you've wasted enough (far too much) of our time & money on this crap.
Edinburger said:
fblm said:
arp1 said:
Why is the phrases 'nationalists' and 'nationalism' seem to have this bad and derisory feel to it by fellow ph'ers? Those no voters are nothing but uk nationalists spouting uk nationalism ideals...
Call it irrational xenophobia then if it makes you feel better. It seems to be a pretty standard reaction that the power hungry have always been able to rely on to manipulate the dim. For the last f
king time (and I don't swear much) the Scottish political situation is not xenophobic or racist or anti-English or anti-anything.Seriously, get over that. Look at volumes 1 and 2 of the main thread if you still need educated about that.
Jeez.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 20th August 23:33
arp1 said:
Figures not to hand (obviously) but don't believe the media hype etc... Listen to yourselves though, is this the way you want your country run? By others? Vote no for some (apparent) powers, vote yes for ALL powers. There it is, simples!
What? You mean like Gordon Brown? (Amongst others) As an Englishman I'm OUTRAGED in retrospect that a Scotsman was calling the shots in this country. I'm guessing it's OK for me to say that now that the Nats are so desperate to divide us British. Perhaps all the counties in England should vote for independence because we don't want people with slightly different accents to be in charge of us. So you think that the Scottish MP's are suddenly going to be different to that of Westminster or any other country?
arp1 said:
Look at the English whinging about Scotland though... Oh you get free this, free that, ooh we subsidise you etc etc etc... Whinging is it not?
Streisand effect in action.This may surprise you but Scotland wasn't at the top of the peoples minds until you brought yourselves to our attention. Whatever the result of the vote there has been a lot of harm done in the relationship, the vast majority of that harm coming from Nationalists.
I doubt there will be any sympathy for you from rUK when you go through years of hardship while the rUK shrugs the economic effect off in around three years to be back where we are now as a union.
Best of luck with it, we have plenty space and room in north east England the for jobs and wealth transfer that will move south.
Wombat3 said:
arp1 said:
Look at the English whinging about Scotland though... Oh you get free this, free that, ooh we subsidise you etc etc etc... Whinging is it not?
Does not even begin to compare with the victim culture of you & yours (specifically when you are the beneficiaries of so much at the expense of so many).You (Scots) Nationalists represent about 3% of the UK population & when this is done and you lose, somebody (everybody else) really needs to tell you to f
k off, shut up , knuckle down, get on with life & stop fking complaining - much like the rest of us do because really, You just arn't that different & you certainly arn't that special. Meanwhile, you've wasted enough (far too much) of our time & money on this crap.
arp1 said:
If there are cuts in an independent Scotland that would not be a surprise, however more cuts are coming our way anyway so what's the difference? The difference is who do you trust more to manage our affairs? Us or them?! You trust Cameron? Must be off your nut associating yourself with that bunch in parliament, laughing their socks off at our expense!
So even you think there is a good chance of cuts
where as the YES campaign state the only way to avoid cuts is to vote YES
Who is being more honest?
steveatesh said:
Streisand effect in action.
This may surprise you but Scotland wasn't at the top of the peoples minds until you brought yourselves to our attention.
This is very much true!This may surprise you but Scotland wasn't at the top of the peoples minds until you brought yourselves to our attention.
To me, before all of the current debate, my experience of Scotland was limited to...
1. Scots I know down here who've been here for years and are just nice, normal people.
2. Scots at Twickenham. This has always been my least favourite Triple Crown fixture, as I do find that there has always been a little less humour and a little more bitterness in the banter than there is with the Welsh or the Irish, but again, still basically nice, normal people.
3. Err... Monarch of the Glen?
For all my experience of it, Scotland might as well already have been a foreign country. One which I had nothing against, with pretty countryside I would one day like to visit, but not something that featured on my radar.
Now, however, I take the view that any Scot who wants to come down here, be successful and join in with the rest of us (which I suspect will be most of the high earners if independence does go ahead) are more than welcome, as I don't see why they wouldn't be just as nice as the ones I already know, but the rest can f
k off to their own little tinpot nation and good riddance!To my mind, what's coming out from the Scots Nationalists is like that film cliché of overhearing people you thought were your friends b
hing about you in the toilets, not realising you're in one of the cubicles. Fine. If you feel like that, you know where the door is, but you can fk off if you think I'm giving you a lift home tonight, even if I am the designated driver and you're already pissed, because somehow I always seem to end up being the designated driver for you!eldar said:
arp1 said:
Look at the English whinging about Scotland though... Oh you get free this, free that, ooh we subsidise you etc etc etc... Whinging is it not?
Subsidised, not free. Average tax generated by uk taxpayer -£8800
Not subsidised
McWigglebum4th said:
arp1 said:
If there are cuts in an independent Scotland that would not be a surprise, however more cuts are coming our way anyway so what's the difference? The difference is who do you trust more to manage our affairs? Us or them?! You trust Cameron? Must be off your nut associating yourself with that bunch in parliament, laughing their socks off at our expense!
So even you think there is a good chance of cuts
where as the YES campaign state the only way to avoid cuts is to vote YES
Who is being more honest?
Even burger almost agreed when Swinney's lies were too difficult to ignore.
arp1 said:
eldar said:
arp1 said:
Look at the English whinging about Scotland though... Oh you get free this, free that, ooh we subsidise you etc etc etc... Whinging is it not?
Subsidised, not free. Average tax generated by uk taxpayer -£8800
Not subsidised
£10372
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-288595...
SUBSIDISED
Gogoplata said:
arp1 said:
Figures not to hand (obviously) but don't believe the media hype etc... Listen to yourselves though, is this the way you want your country run? By others? Vote no for some (apparent) powers, vote yes for ALL powers. There it is, simples!
What? You mean like Gordon Brown? (Amongst others) As an Englishman I'm OUTRAGED in retrospect that a Scotsman was calling the shots in this country. I'm guessing it's OK for me to say that now that the Nats are so desperate to divide us British. Perhaps all the counties in England should vote for independence because we don't want people with slightly different accents to be in charge of us. So you think that the Scottish MP's are suddenly going to be different to that of Westminster or any other country?
As for the counties thing, are they or were they nations in their own right? Ach Awa an dunnae talk pish!
I wish all you haters did have the vote so it would be guaranteed yes!
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