Scottish Politics / Independence - Vol 12

[Viper201]

biggbn said:

irc said:

The next old firm game is on Sunday. Will Police Scotland computer servers be able to cope?

Calling someone a Fenian/Orange bd must be covered by the new law. So can be reported anonymously by anyone using the handy online form.

Good point made on Radio Scotland today. A supporter of the says inciting racial hatred was already a crime. To which the presenter said "has the law reduced it". The answer was don't know.

I'll be straight on the phone, and not anonymously either, to report 22 people to the fraud squad for claiming to be football players..

[Viper201]

irc said:

Gecko1978 said:

Question I don't live in Scotland but I know some of our more left leaning friends do. So if I misgender someone can they report me to police Scotland. But as I am in London is it a crime.

If you do it online yes. You may be in London but the crime is committed in Scotland if it is online and is read by someone in Scotland. In other words. the Scottish courts have awarded themselves worldwide jurisdiction. In England no extradition problems. If a Scottish court issues a warrant the English police arrest you and you are brought here to appear in court.

So the offender lives in Cornwall. Has polis Scotland got the manpower and finances to send 2 plods all the way from Inverness where the naughty words were read, to collect said offender and then take him all the way home? Probably too far in a car and the cost by train will be prohibitive.

It would need to be a serious hate crime to justify the expense and would it be in the public interest to prosecute?

[Glasgowrob]

Viper201 said:

So the offender lives in Cornwall. Has polis Scotland got the manpower and finances to send 2 plods all the way from Inverness where the naughty words were read, to collect said offender and then take him all the way home? Probably too far in a car and the cost by train will be prohibitive.

It would need to be a serious hate crime to justify the expense and would it be in the public interest to prosecute?

of course it would,

we'll let the rapists and murderers get a free pass, but god help you if you say hurty words.

[McGee_22]

Glasgowrob said:

of course it would,

we'll let the rapists and murderers get a free pass, but god help you if you say hurty words.

I’m assuming that those under 25 who utter hurty words will not be prosecuted or even condemned as their poor brains are not mature enough to be responsible for their actions in accordance with Scottish sentencing guidelines.

[irc]

Overheard in Holyrood. Humza - Chess is RACIST!. Every single game WHITE moves first!" Books! Racist! 99% have WHITE paper!

[Roderick Spode]

There is a genuine lack of understanding about the far reaching implications of this bill. Speaking to friends over the weekend on the subject, one said "oh that's going through parliament? I hope they vote against it, sounds awful." When I explained it was actually becoming law as of 1st April they were horrified. Now either the media have done a very bad job of explaining what it is, or people more generally have taken zero interest. The scale of the protests at Holyrood yesterday looked fairly promising - I mean it was no Freedummm march with eleventy billion in residence, but there was a good few hundred jeering and booing the very mention of the name of Humza Yousless. I'm no fan of the SNP, but I have a feeling this could be their Poll Tax moment after 17 long years of incompetent governance.

[Janluke]

Roderick Spode said:

There is a genuine lack of understanding about the far reaching implications of this bill. Speaking to friends over the weekend on the subject, one said "oh that's going through parliament? I hope they vote against it, sounds awful." When I explained it was actually becoming law as of 1st April they were horrified. Now either the media have done a very bad job of explaining what it is, or people more generally have taken zero interest. The scale of the protests at Holyrood yesterday looked fairly promising - I mean it was no Freedummm march with eleventy billion in residence, but there was a good few hundred jeering and booing the very mention of the name of Humza Yousless. I'm no fan of the SNP, but I have a feeling this could be their Poll Tax moment after 17 long years of incompetent governance.

I think JKR actions will define how the bill works, either the Police take no action and we all know nothing has changed or she's charged and tests it in the courts

[sherman]

Janluke said:

Roderick Spode said:

There is a genuine lack of understanding about the far reaching implications of this bill. Speaking to friends over the weekend on the subject, one said "oh that's going through parliament? I hope they vote against it, sounds awful." When I explained it was actually becoming law as of 1st April they were horrified. Now either the media have done a very bad job of explaining what it is, or people more generally have taken zero interest. The scale of the protests at Holyrood yesterday looked fairly promising - I mean it was no Freedummm march with eleventy billion in residence, but there was a good few hundred jeering and booing the very mention of the name of Humza Yousless. I'm no fan of the SNP, but I have a feeling this could be their Poll Tax moment after 17 long years of incompetent governance.

I think JKR actions will define how the bill works, either the Police take no action and we all know nothing has changed or she's charged and tests it in the courts

And she will fund it to as high a court as she can to tie them up in litegation for evermore.

[Roderick Spode]

sherman said:

Janluke said:

Roderick Spode said:

There is a genuine lack of understanding about the far reaching implications of this bill. Speaking to friends over the weekend on the subject, one said "oh that's going through parliament? I hope they vote against it, sounds awful." When I explained it was actually becoming law as of 1st April they were horrified. Now either the media have done a very bad job of explaining what it is, or people more generally have taken zero interest. The scale of the protests at Holyrood yesterday looked fairly promising - I mean it was no Freedummm march with eleventy billion in residence, but there was a good few hundred jeering and booing the very mention of the name of Humza Yousless. I'm no fan of the SNP, but I have a feeling this could be their Poll Tax moment after 17 long years of incompetent governance.

I think JKR actions will define how the bill works, either the Police take no action and we all know nothing has changed or she's charged and tests it in the courts

And she will fund it to as high a court as she can to tie them up in litegation for evermore.

Meanwhile the Scottish taxpayer gets lumped with the humongous legal bill for the SNP's ongoing ideological frivolities. It amazes me how JKR has gone from progressive liberal darling of the left and hero to millions, to (supposedly) 'bigoted far right extremist' for merely stating biological and observable reality. We really are now living in the SNP's ClownWorld.

[Evercross]

Roderick Spode said:

It amazes me how JKR has gone from progressive liberal darling of the left and hero to millions, to (supposedly) 'bigoted far right extremist' for merely stating biological and observable reality.

I explained this a few pages back. The 'progressive liberal' movement is also a money-spinning enterprise for a myriad of organisations (one of the most prominent and profitable being Stonewall) either creaming-off government funds or charging workplaces and institutions for consultation and/or approval schemes for diversity, equity and inclusion.

The gravy-train was coming to a halt though because pretty much all of the LGB and equal rights for women fights had been won. Governments the world over had enshrined those rights in law or had pledged to do so.

So, these self-declared forces for good had to find a new revenue stream hence they've gone all-in on the trans issue, but the trans ideology contradicts the previous women's rights ideology so they have to effectively cancel women's rights as a thing - not acknowledge or reject but outright expunge it from the vocabulary so as not to make these DEI organisations appear to be the bunch of self-serving two-faced hypocrites that they are.

Rowling is a reminder of what they were before and she isn't prepared to be memory-holed just to keep their revenue stream running.

ETA I was perusing the 2023-24 expenditure for one council in Scotland and noticed that schools in that council area had collectively spent six figures on achieving LGBT Charter Status. That's a lot of classroom resources that weren't bought in exchange for a nice plaque to hang at the school reception and a load of (printed and laminated at the school's own additional expense) rainbow coloured certificates to Blu-Tak above teacher's desks.

Interesting also to note that in October 2023 LGBT Youth attached a three-year expiry date to each charter approval. Nothing at all to do with keeping that gravy train running. No siree!

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 2nd April 10:49

[Composer62]

McGee_22 said:

I’m assuming that those under 25 who utter hurty words will not be prosecuted or even condemned as their poor brains are not mature enough to be responsible for their actions in accordance with Scottish sentencing guidelines.

Funnily enough it was young white blokes the "Hate Monster" picked out as most likely to commit "Hate Crimes" so not so consistent there.

[Shambler]

The problem is that Police Scotland have probably already been informed not to take action against J K Rowling as they know the consequences already.

[irc]

LGBT charter status. I look back with nostalgia to when the corporate buzzword for boasting was the harmless Investors in People certificate.

[Gecko1978]

Shambler said:

The problem is that Police Scotland have probably already been informed not to take action against J K Rowling as they know the consequences already.

The issue might be if they arrest someone and she funds there defence, the idea in goverments mind will be to punish a little person so calm the crowd well if the little person gets some backing the law then gets tested in the courts.

Personally I belive this law is ill thought out. Hate is bad but hate is also subjective we often find things ok one day and not the next what we should punish is verifiable harm. So go on line read some stuff you dont like again an again well that is on you, after blocking a person an them coming bac again and again well that's harresment etc and harm it really was never that hard but we seem to want to make it so

[Roderick Spode]

Evercross said:

Roderick Spode said:

It amazes me how JKR has gone from progressive liberal darling of the left and hero to millions, to (supposedly) 'bigoted far right extremist' for merely stating biological and observable reality.

I explained this a few pages back. The 'progressive liberal' movement is also a money-spinning enterprise for a myriad of organisations (one of the most prominent and profitable being Stonewall) either creaming-off government funds or charging workplaces and institutions for consultation and/or approval schemes for diversity, equity and inclusion.

The gravy-train was coming to a halt though because pretty much all of the LGB and equal rights for women fights had been won. Governments the world over had enshrined those rights in law or had pledged to do so.

So, these self-declared forces for good had to find a new revenue stream hence they've gone all-in on the trans issue, but the trans ideology contradicts the previous women's rights ideology so they have to effectively cancel women's rights as a thing - not acknowledge or reject but outright expunge it from the vocabulary so as not to make these DEI organisations appear to be the bunch of self-serving two-faced hypocrites that they are.

Rowling is a reminder of what they were before and she isn't prepared to be memory-holed just to keep their revenue stream running.

ETA I was perusing the 2023-24 expenditure for one council in Scotland and noticed that schools in that council area had collectively spent six figures on achieving LGBT Charter Status. Interesting to note that in October 2023 LGBT Youth attached a three-year expiry date to each charter approval. Nothing at all to do with keeping that gravy train running. No siree!

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 2nd April 10:46

I've read various exegeses on the revised campaigning focus of Stonewall for precisely the reasons you mention. No prospect of a meaningful future revenue stream campaigning for the LGB community, but there is a rich and bountiful harvest from agitating for the T onwards of the alphabet people. It doesn't matter if it contravenes female rights or safe spaces, that's simply another future revenue stream, as will be advocating for future detransitioners, and children irreparably damaged by 'gender-affirming care'. Very clever by Stonewall. Also make yourself indispensable to councils, corporations and other public bodies by creating a 'Stonewall-endorsed' certification showing how virtuous they all are. Amazing. Criticism of same is now enshrined in Scottish Government law, well played Stonewall.

[Error_404_Username_not_found]

Evercross said:

I explained this a few pages back. The 'progressive liberal' movement is also a money-spinning enterprise for a myriad of organisations (one of the most prominent and profitable being Stonewall) either creaming-off government funds or charging workplaces and institutions for consultation and/or approval schemes for diversity, equity and inclusion.

The gravy-train was coming to a halt though because pretty much all of the LGB and equal rights for women fights had been won. Governments the world over had enshrined those rights in law or had pledged to do so.

So, these self-declared forces for good had to find a new revenue stream hence they've gone all-in on the trans issue, but the trans ideology contradicts the previous women's rights ideology so they have to effectively cancel women's rights as a thing - not acknowledge or reject but outright expunge it from the vocabulary so as not to make these DEI organisations appear to be the bunch of self-serving two-faced hypocrites that they are.

Rowling is a reminder of what they were before and she isn't prepared to be memory-holed just to keep their revenue stream running.

ETA I was perusing the 2023-24 expenditure for one council in Scotland and noticed that schools in that council area had collectively spent six figures on achieving LGBT Charter Status. That's a lot of classroom resources that weren't bought in exchange for a nice plaque to hang at the school reception and a load of (printed and laminated at the school's own additional expense) rainbow coloured certificates to Blu-Tak above teacher's desks.

Interesting also to note that in October 2023 LGBT Youth attached a three-year expiry date to each charter approval. Nothing at all to do with keeping that gravy train running. No siree!

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 2nd April 10:49

That's little short of criminal, given the scarcity of resources in education that they themselves moan about.
Because Tory austerity, natch. Nothing at all to do with gross mismanagement.
I just went and had a look at that webpage.
WTAF!!!
Of course any criticism, stated or implied, is Verboten.
On the landing page a little blue pop-up appears. "Leave us a message".
Aye, right.

ETA: why was this legislation not subject to a Section 35? It clearly violates several areas of UK and European Law that are outwith SG competence.
The only time a S35 order has been applied to stop incompetent legislation it was done with great reluctance as Westminster didn't want it to become a norm - in other words, it was a "nuclear option" to be applied only in extremis.
It would be more appropriate for Westminster to consider it routinely for every act of the devolved assemblies and apply it to every act that cannot be demonstrated to be squeaky clean.

Edited by Error_404_Username_not_found on Tuesday 2nd April 11:49

[Evercross]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

ETA: why was this legislation not subject to a Section 35? It clearly violates several areas of UK and European Law that are outwith SG competence.

Probably because the UK Gov legal eagles have appreciated that much of what is contained within it that purports to give Scots Law jurisdiction over the Rest Of The World is in practice unenforceable and can be ignored with no consequences.

[Roderick Spode]

Error_404_Username_not_found said:

ETA: why was this legislation not subject to a Section 35?

I would suggest that this is exactly what the SNP want to happen. They keep introducing more and more profoundly insane policies that step on the toes of Westminster, and goad the grown-up government into a response. When the response comes in whatever form, the SNP squeal like chastised children "waaaahh the nasty man took away my sweeties". It's so blatant and so basic - I'm not claiming it's some great product of long term planning or incredible intellect, rather basic poking of bears as implemented by cretinous morons since the dawn of humanity. The SNP certainly fall under the remit of cretinous morons of barely credible nitwittedness. To call them halfwits would be a hate crime to genuine and earnest halfwits.

[cuprabob]

So everybody is talking about this Hate Crime Bill. Another blinder played by the SNP to distract the attention away from real issues like ambulances still queueing outside hospitals etc..

[Roderick Spode]

It's certainly a topic of discussion on Twitter.