Scotland after the vote
Discussion
arp1 said:
AstonZagato said:
arp1 said:
Hey, you are an idiot not to realise there have been lies and mistruths from both camps, you just have to sift through and make your own mind up... Much like when watching mainstream media coverage of the referendum... Do you honestly think better together/no thanks etc have been 100% truthful?
Show me examples then. Let's set them up one side against the other and see who is less truthful.
arp1 said:
Grow up, I'm assuming you are an adult? I just a see through a lot of the guff I have seen and am voting my way, you can vote the way you vote, simples
So what you're saying buddy is that actually, you know your rationale for voting Yes is fundamentally flawed and any assertions you make are either lies or apply equally to your own argument, so rather than try make a decent attempt to justify, you're going to play the 'get out of jail free' card and prove that really, you're a braveheart who would vote for Indy no matter what. arp1 said:
Grow up, I'm assuming you are an adult?
Excellent riposte, not in any way the last resort of the beaten or intellectually challenged. I'm afraid even reading the debate on here the hard evidence is over whelming - Scotland will go through a really tough time if you vote yes and living standards will no doubt drop for a considerable amount of your population. In addition you will put into hock your children's future who will have to pay for the SNPs unfunded socialism.
But so of that's ok really because you are simply following a faith rather than a reasoned out argument based on a sound rationale and good judgement.
Faith, the spreader of peace and harmony the world over.
Really? Name calling? I realise that is uncomfortable that I have forced you to look at the unpalatable truth.
You know the Yes campaign is lying. You claim both sides are lying but can't (or won't) produce evidence for the No side lying.
And you think I need to grow up?
This is the future of your country. You are being misled by the Yes campaign and your countrymen are being misled by them too. Yet you plough on, disregarding the evidence.
That is fine - I see the emotional arguments for an independent Scotland. But there are virtually no other reasone that stand up to a moment's scrutiny.
You know the Yes campaign is lying. You claim both sides are lying but can't (or won't) produce evidence for the No side lying.
And you think I need to grow up?
This is the future of your country. You are being misled by the Yes campaign and your countrymen are being misled by them too. Yet you plough on, disregarding the evidence.
That is fine - I see the emotional arguments for an independent Scotland. But there are virtually no other reasone that stand up to a moment's scrutiny.
arp1 said:
You just had to watch general (mainly) BBC programmes to feel the 'outrage' that a Scot was in charge so don't give me that... And for some reason Tony didn't seem like a Scot and wasn't perceived as one but Gogs was, strange that .
I suspect that was only happening in your head, I don't recall any outrage about Brown or Blair's origin on the BBC or anywhere else on TV.arp1 said:
Do you believe public sector jobs are safe with the status quo, based on what is happening in the region of England? And with the reduction in funds from the austerity measures, do you not think similar cuts will be implemented in the region of Scotland due to this?
You can't spend more than your income forever so, of course, there will be UK wide cuts and there need to be. There is no choice. However, look at Scotland's tax take v spending and if you are against cuts you shoud be very worried.Although estimates vary, the most optomistic (the Scottish Government's own) show a huge gap between Scotland's take v spending. Other, independent, studies by 3rd parties show enormous gaps in some cases estimating public spending needing to be halved. It is a massive leap of faith to assume that everyone is completely wrong on these figures and it will all work out OK if you want to see public spending maintained at anything remotely close to current levels.
An independent Scotland will need to be a low tax, low public spend, enterprise creating nation if it is ever to balance the books and stand a chance of prospering. To change to that will mean massive pain which will make Thatcherism look like a storm in a tea cup.
The current debate on most issues reminds me of the Blackadder scene with Tom Baker.
"Will independence mean a lot of pain in the short and medium term?"
"Opinion is divided on the subject - everyone else says it will, I say it won't".
AstonZagato said:
Where have I said that? Where has the No campaign said that?
But why do you think voting Yes protects public sector jobs in Scotland?
I think you are wasting your time. Obviously public sector jobs are free, or at least they fall out of the same money tree that Salmond has in mind for everything else.But why do you think voting Yes protects public sector jobs in Scotland?
I don't think he realizes that public sector jobs are actually a drag on a free economy and certainly when a nation has to borrow to fund them then they are an even bigger millstone round successive generations necks.
Please don't burst his bubble
steveatesh said:
AstonZagato said:
Where have I said that? Where has the No campaign said that?
But why do you think voting Yes protects public sector jobs in Scotland?
I think you are wasting your time. Obviously public sector jobs are free, or at least they fall out of the same money tree that Salmond has in mind for everything else.But why do you think voting Yes protects public sector jobs in Scotland?
I don't think he realizes that public sector jobs are actually a drag on a free economy and certainly when a nation has to borrow to fund them then they are an even bigger millstone round successive generations necks.
Please don't burst his bubble
)Round and round and round we go, where it stops..........No.
Anyway, less than a month to go, all excited, though I am more pissed that if Iceland decides to fart my holiday to Barcelona wont be happening, so hopefully it will keep its lid on.
Otherwise, a No vote come the 18th and a quieter forum hopefully.
Anyway, less than a month to go, all excited, though I am more pissed that if Iceland decides to fart my holiday to Barcelona wont be happening, so hopefully it will keep its lid on.
Otherwise, a No vote come the 18th and a quieter forum hopefully.
arp1 said:
Just their last week Danny Alexander let slip the measures they are cutting public services, so why advocate voting no to have this implemented? (One of many many things but as you well know I don't produce any evidence event bough it's out there for you to find )
Of course they are cutting spending. It is because our (UK) tax take is lower than our spend. They have to balance eventually. It is part of the responsibility of an independent country. If you don't - you go bust. Even as a largish country of 65 million with our own currency and central bank you can't run a deficit forever. )Now go back and look at Scotland's tax take and spending and look at it without your own currency and central bank for a country with 5 million and see what will have to happen. Look at the figures and work it out yourself - don't listen to anyone else.
arp1 said:
Just their last week Danny Alexander let slip the measures they are cutting public services, so why advocate voting no to have this implemented?
Have the Yes campaign guaranteed that public services won't be cut?You could see a cut in public services no matter which way the vote goes.
arp1 said:
Do you believe public sector jobs are safe with the status quo, based on what is happening in the region of England? And with the reduction in funds from the austerity measures, do you not think similar cuts will be implemented in the region of Scotland due to this?
YES voters love to bang on about how Standard and poors said scotland would be INSTANTLY rewarded a AAA rating which is higher then the UK.Have any of them actually read the report?
Doudtful
Now here is your chance
http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/reposito...
I quite like the bottom of page 3
Lets have some quotes
"First, at 8% of GDP, and employing 7% of the workforce, Scotland's financial sector is large and closely integrated into the U.K. Re-domiciling of these international banks to the remaining U.K. could exert a drag on the size of Scottish GDP, though less so on gross national product”
So they are saying if the banks bugger off then we have a problem
"Second, Scotland also has a natural dependency on merchandise and business services trade with the rest of the U.K., the destination for an estimated 49% of Scottish exports; independence may lead to a partial reversal of that integration, with economic consequences."
They are saying that splitting from the english oppressing overlords we may see less business with them.
"Third, the public sector is sizable, accounting for nearly one-quarter of the total workforce. This is considerably higher than the U.K. average. In our opinion, shifting post-independence to a lower public sector employment rate could weigh on Scotland's initial growth performance."
So when YES voters scream about cuts I must ask. How are we not going to see cuts if we need to reduce the size of our public sector
arp1 said:
Just their last week Danny Alexander let slip the measures they are cutting public services, so why advocate voting no to have this implemented? (One of many many things but as you well know I don't produce any evidence event bough it's out there for you to find )
Curious. I can only assume that you yourself run your household finances constantly in debt which is growing and no means to pay it off, but still don't see why you should curtail your spending habits. )arp1 said:
You just had to watch general (mainly) BBC programmes to feel the 'outrage' that a Scot was in charge so don't give me that... And for some reason Tony didn't seem like a Scot and wasn't perceived as one but Gogs was, strange that .
Yeah, two of the main political journalists on the BBC, Andrew Marr, on "The Andrew Marr Show", and Andrew Neil, on "The Daily Politics", "The Sunday Politics" and "This Week", spent forever ripping into him for being Scottish. Every time they talked about him they would add insult to injury by putting on this big fake hootsman accent. You could sense their 'outrage' that a Scot was in such a position of reponsibility.Edited by blinkythefish on Thursday 21st August 10:27
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