More Argie Bargie
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
For Viperpict's benefit, that was the ill-fated Panama expedition in the 1690s that bankrupted Scotland and forced England to bail it out.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
You are going to pay that back once you declare independence, aren't you?
2% interest for 300 years, and adjusted for inflation, makes that £270bn. I don't think we'll take a cheque.
davepoth said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
For Viperpict's benefit, that was the ill-fated Panama expedition in the 1690s that bankrupted Scotland and forced England to bail it out.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme
You are going to pay that back once you declare independence, aren't you?
2% interest for 300 years, and adjusted for inflation, makes that £270bn. I don't think we'll take a cheque.
ViperPict said:
If you actually read beyond Wikipedia you'd know how things really played out. England forced the failure of the scheme by refusing to protect the colony from the Spanish as they promised they would. There's even strong historical evidence to suggest that the whole plan was hatched by the English, playing to a currupt few (the 'Parcel O' Rogues' of infamy) to take up the scheme (for significant personal reward) in order to deliberately bankrupt Scotland. Gaining control through fiscal means rather than military which they knew they couldn't do. Please don't try and trip me up on the history of the Union!
Yeah, definitely England's fault. 
ViperPict said:
If you actually read beyond Wikipedia you'd know how things really played out. England forced the failure of the scheme by refusing to protect the colony from the Spanish as they promised they would. There's even strong historical evidence to suggest that the whole plan was hatched by the English, playing to a currupt few (the 'Parcel O' Rogues' of infamy) to take up the scheme (for significant personal reward) in order to deliberately bankrupt Scotland. Gaining control through fiscal means rather than military which they knew they couldn't do. Please don't try and trip me up on the history of the Union!
Oh I see, didn't want to do it independently did you? 
davepoth said:
ViperPict said:
If you actually read beyond Wikipedia you'd know how things really played out. England forced the failure of the scheme by refusing to protect the colony from the Spanish as they promised they would. There's even strong historical evidence to suggest that the whole plan was hatched by the English, playing to a currupt few (the 'Parcel O' Rogues' of infamy) to take up the scheme (for significant personal reward) in order to deliberately bankrupt Scotland. Gaining control through fiscal means rather than military which they knew they couldn't do. Please don't try and trip me up on the history of the Union!
Yeah, definitely England's fault. Oakey said:
ViperPict said:
If you actually read beyond Wikipedia you'd know how things really played out. England forced the failure of the scheme by refusing to protect the colony from the Spanish as they promised they would. There's even strong historical evidence to suggest that the whole plan was hatched by the English, playing to a currupt few (the 'Parcel O' Rogues' of infamy) to take up the scheme (for significant personal reward) in order to deliberately bankrupt Scotland. Gaining control through fiscal means rather than military which they knew they couldn't do. Please don't try and trip me up on the history of the Union!
Oh I see, didn't want to do it independently did you? 
ViperPict said:
Nope, just the inevitability of empireism...
It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
So had the Darien Scheme all worked out hunky-dory, imperialism would have been just fine?It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
You also seem to be forgetting the splendid contribution - out of all propoertion, really - that Scotland made to building and maintaining the British empire. I don't mean that at all ironically. Its somwthing you, and we, should be proud of.
But the Falklands dispute is between one set of colonisers (The British) and another (The Spanish, or their descendants) in the south Atlantic. So trying to play the anti-colonial moral high gropund gig doesn't really cut it.
BruceV8 said:
ViperPict said:
Nope, just the inevitability of empireism...
It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
So had the Darien Scheme all worked out hunky-dory, imperialism would have been just fine?It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
You also seem to be forgetting the splendid contribution - out of all propoertion, really - that Scotland made to building and maintaining the British empire. I don't mean that at all ironically. Its somwthing you, and we, should be proud of.
But the Falklands dispute is between one set of colonisers (The British) and another (The Spanish, or their descendants) in the south Atlantic. So trying to play the anti-colonial moral high gropund gig doesn't really cut it.
And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
ViperPict said:
BruceV8 said:
ViperPict said:
Nope, just the inevitability of empireism...
It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
So had the Darien Scheme all worked out hunky-dory, imperialism would have been just fine?It's the chip-on-the-shoulder folks who think it's in any way an anti-English issue...
You also seem to be forgetting the splendid contribution - out of all propoertion, really - that Scotland made to building and maintaining the British empire. I don't mean that at all ironically. Its somwthing you, and we, should be proud of.
But the Falklands dispute is between one set of colonisers (The British) and another (The Spanish, or their descendants) in the south Atlantic. So trying to play the anti-colonial moral high gropund gig doesn't really cut it.
And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
On balance a force for good - any other assessment is mean spirited revisionist rewrite of history.
BruceV8 said:
So had the Darien Scheme all worked out hunky-dory, imperialism would have been just fine?
You also seem to be forgetting the splendid contribution - out of all propoertion, really - that Scotland made to building and maintaining the British empire. I don't mean that at all ironically. Its somwthing you, and we, should be proud of.
But the Falklands dispute is between one set of colonisers (The British) and another (The Spanish, or their descendants) in the south Atlantic. So trying to play the anti-colonial moral high gropund gig doesn't really cut it.
Knowing nothing of the geaneology of the Falklanders I kind of suspect, given the crappy remoteness of some crappy islands in the middle of nowhere and bloody freezing, surely only the Scots would have the temperament to step of a boat and seemingly think it would be a bloody good idea to stay? You also seem to be forgetting the splendid contribution - out of all propoertion, really - that Scotland made to building and maintaining the British empire. I don't mean that at all ironically. Its somwthing you, and we, should be proud of.
But the Falklands dispute is between one set of colonisers (The British) and another (The Spanish, or their descendants) in the south Atlantic. So trying to play the anti-colonial moral high gropund gig doesn't really cut it.
If it wasn't the Scots then it could only have been some West Country shipwrecked bumpkins who found penguins more attractive than the wives back home.
ViperPict said:
There were many Scottish individuals involved in the Empire. But it was not a Scottish political decision to conquer. Also the same reason why I think, even if it had been successful, the Darien Scheme was not right. I'm glad that there was never an exclusively Scottish Empire!
And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
You are such a card. There could never have been a British Empire without the Scots. And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
For starters there are probably more Scottish genes through the Commonwealth than English. That might be a standards thing but it kind of proves the Scots were there.
Just because your Lowlanders bent over for a few English Shillings isn't out fault. I don't blame out cleaner for keeping out house clean.
ViperPict said:
There were many Scottish individuals involved in the Empire. But it was not a Scottish political decision to conquer. Also the same reason why I think, even if it had been successful, the Darien Scheme was not right. I'm glad that there was never an exclusively Scottish Empire!
And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
You are such a card. There could never have been a British Empire without the Scots. And I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just stating a fact that, with empireism, there comes the inevitable time when the ground you've made can't be held onto. Well, that happened a long time ago with the 'British Empire' obviously. But there are still some final ripples of that time.
And I will never be proud of anything that came out of the British Empire. How can you be proud of subjugation FFS?!
For starters there are probably more Scottish genes through the Commonwealth than English. That might be a standards thing but it kind of proves the Scots were there.
Just because your Lowlanders bent over for a few English Shillings isn't out fault. I don't blame out cleaner for keeping out house clean.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff