Tories pressing the self-destruct button?

[Bingo1976]

BlackVanDyke said:

rich1231 said:

BlackVanDyke said:

No, I'm saying that benefits recipients do not receive tens of thousands of pounds of cash housing benefits - it goes straight to their (our) landlords.

Not as if it's given to spend at will.

And how does that matter, money in pocket or they benefit from it in other ways - roof over ead or otherwise?

I'm not really going to try to define 'matter' but it's a roof over your head, shelter one of the most fundamental needs there is - it can hardly be compared to someone choosing to burn cash on cigarettes or ridiculous branded clothing, and indeed in the case of any housing benefit recipient, that choice is not available to make, for good or ill.

And how many of those currently receiving housing benefits could not otherwise stay with relatives if the state were not funding them?

[rich1231]

BlackVanDyke said:

I'm not really going to try to define 'matter' but it's a roof over your head, shelter one of the most fundamental needs there is - it can hardly be compared to someone choosing to burn cash on cigarettes or ridiculous branded clothing, and indeed in the case of any housing benefit recipient, that choice is not available to make, for good or ill.

And I suppose its not worth explaining to you that the pit of money to pay for everything and the pockets of those asked to pay are not infinitely deep.

[thinfourth2]

BlackVanDyke said:

Er, yes. That'll be the landlords.

bring back the poor house and no more nasty rich landlords

[BlackVanDyke]

Bingo1976 said:

BlackVanDyke said:

rich1231 said:

BlackVanDyke said:

No, I'm saying that benefits recipients do not receive tens of thousands of pounds of cash housing benefits - it goes straight to their (our) landlords.

Not as if it's given to spend at will.

And how does that matter, money in pocket or they benefit from it in other ways - roof over ead or otherwise?

I'm not really going to try to define 'matter' but it's a roof over your head, shelter one of the most fundamental needs there is - it can hardly be compared to someone choosing to burn cash on cigarettes or ridiculous branded clothing, and indeed in the case of any housing benefit recipient, that choice is not available to make, for good or ill.

And how many of those currently receiving housing benefits could not otherwise stay with relatives if the state were not funding them?

A fair few, I should think. I can't physically get as far as the front door of my folks house, forget bedroom or bathroom... it's not all young single folk whose parents are still alive and willing/able to have them, and indeed said young folk can't generally get housed by local authorities at all.

[jaedba2604]

does Dave read PH?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2163773/Ca...

[martin84]

More ridiculous hyperbole from the Mail I see.

Mail said:

Reveals housing benefit will be scrapped for under 25s, who'll be forced to live with their parents

What if they don't have any? What if they were brought up in care or their parents died in a horrible boating accident?

Mail said:

Stopping the £70-a-week dole money for the unemployed who refuse to try hard to find work or produce a CV.

They already do this.

Mail said:

Forcing a hardcore of workshy claimants to do community work after two years on the dole – or lose all their benefits.

How do you identify a 'hardcore' exactly? Two years isn't really that long to be unemployed these days. Bloke I work with has qualifications and experience coming out of his ears yet it took him 9 months. I dread to think what it's like for a youngster with a largely empty CV.

Dave said:

We aren’t even asking them, 'Have you got a CV ready to go?'

Yes you do actually.

Mail said:

Well-placed sources say Ministers are also taking a fresh look at plans to limit child benefit to a couple’s first three children

Three? So above the average number the average family has? If you're going to make a song and dance then at least propose something which might actually make a difference fiscally.

Typical Cameron. Lot's of rhetoric but expect less than 30% of this to ever see the light of day in reality.

[Derek Smith]

So let's get this right in my mind. The conservatives want people to get on their bikes and move around the country to where the jobs are but they want them to stay with their mum and dad.

That's joined up government for you.

[rover 623gsi]

indeed

and I presume that he will give under-25's an enforceable legal right to live with their parents and impose sanctions against any parents who refuse to let their 24-year old live with them...

[turbobloke]

Derek Smith said:

So let's get this right in my mind. The conservatives want people aged over 25 to get on their bikes and move around the country to where the jobs are but they want them under 25 to stay with their mum and dad.

That's joined up government for you.

It could be, when necessary detail is added, not that I'm a fan of relatively arbitrary numbers whether related to speed or age and as rover 623gsi has said, there's more detail that looks dodgy.

[rich1231]

BlackVanDyke said:

A fair few, I should think. I can't physically get as far as the front door of my folks house, forget bedroom or bathroom... it's not all young single folk whose parents are still alive and willing/able to have them, and indeed said young folk can't generally get housed by local authorities at all.

Why don't your parents adapt their house for you?

[Randy Winkman]

rover 623gsi said:

indeed

and I presume that he will give under-25's an enforceable legal right to live with their parents and impose sanctions against any parents who refuse to let their 24-year old live with them...

They come from a different world where everything is nice.

[Derek Smith]

rover 623gsi said:

indeed

and I presume that he will give under-25's an enforceable legal right to live with their parents and impose sanctions against any parents who refuse to let their 24-year old live with them...

Damn! I've in the process of following that other government inspired initiative and downsizing. So my four kids will be pushed onto me despite the fact that there's not enough room for them.

[speedy_thrills]

The problem I can see the Tories have is how the public view their application of pressure. The British public simply wouldn’t tolerate pulling the rug on social welfare and I think the coalition have always been keenly aware of that. Perhaps what they’ve struggled to show is that they can create jobs and hence match the needs of industry with the demand for employment. They’ve been very blunt in putting more emphasis on their fiscal rather than social efforts to deal with the UKs current problems but both are of mutual and equally important.

They’ve been blessed with a weak opposition but the public doesn’t seem to have patience any more. This has hurt their chances of being re-elected unless they can pull off a real rise in incomes and reduce unemployment. They need to show that a top down approach to economic management can deliver or change their policy direction on the economy.

[rover 623gsi]

the problem re: housing benefit is that only one in eight recipients of HB are unemployed. Most people who receive HB are in (relatively) low paid jobs so for most people it isn't actually a choice of work or benefits. And one of the reasons that the HB bill is has escalated so much is that successive govts have reduced the amount of social house building which means that huge sums of money are going into the pockets of private landlords - and of course private rents are much higher than social rents.

[deadslow]

rover 623gsi said:

the problem re: housing benefit is that only one in eight recipients of HB are unemployed. Most people who receive HB are in (relatively) low paid jobs so ......

..... in the majority of cases housing benefit is a subsidy to low paying employers.

[egor110]

People having children who aren't in a position to support them financially is the problem.
I know quite a few people in blue collar manual jobs , those with no children get 0 housing benefits but those who do get the benefits.

[Countdown]

deadslow said:

rover 623gsi said:

the problem re: housing benefit is that only one in eight recipients of HB are unemployed. Most people who receive HB are in (relatively) low paid jobs so ......

..... in the majority of cases housing benefit is a subsidy to low paying employers.

We should be grateful to those employers for giving us the opportunity to pay tax. they are the "harshly penalised" wealth creators this country needs more of.

[Apache]

article here

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18567855

and judging by the ratings, he's pressed self destruct alright

[Steffan]

Countdown said:

deadslow said:

rover 623gsi said:

the problem re: housing benefit is that only one in eight recipients of HB are unemployed. Most people who receive HB are in (relatively) low paid jobs so ......

..... in the majority of cases housing benefit is a subsidy to low paying employers.

We should be grateful to those employers for giving us the opportunity to pay tax. they are the "harshly penalised" wealth creators this country needs more of.

I am somewhat surprised by the figure of only 20% of HB receivers are unemployed. Can someone identify the source of this information please?

I find it hard to believe that is an accurate figure. Could it be, like so many of the "unemployed" figures, that the actual reality of the true level has been obfuscated with clever statistics?

[deadslow]

Countdown said:

deadslow said:

rover 623gsi said:

the problem re: housing benefit is that only one in eight recipients of HB are unemployed. Most people who receive HB are in (relatively) low paid jobs so ......

..... in the majority of cases housing benefit is a subsidy to low paying employers.

We should be grateful to those employers for giving us the opportunity to pay tax. they are the "harshly penalised" wealth creators this country needs more of.

Maybe we ought to pay housing benefit directly to the shareholders of major companies who count their profits in thousands of millions.