Charity Kids Co. director asked to step down.

Charity Kids Co. director asked to step down.

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London424

12,830 posts

177 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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Eric Mc said:
One interesting figure in the accounts of the charity is the Debtors figure of around £5 million at 31 December 2013. The total gross income of the charity was £23 million. They are therefore saying that almost almost 1/5 of the income shown in the profit and loss account had not yet been received at the year end date.

I'd like to know a little bit more about why this was the case. It does seem rather high for an organisation that essentially receives cash donations. Why would it have any significant "debtors" i.e. unrecieved donations, at all?
A Tesco? Booking profit not generated (or in this case, booking revenue ahead of receiving it?).

Sheepshanks

33,093 posts

121 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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GloverMart said:
The woman who runs the Bristol centres, (Esther ??) was talking about this on our local news tonight. She said that she was abroad due to family reasons but had arranged for her house to go on the market as she wouldn't be able to afford to run it any more.

Is it me or is that a little bit hasty? Effectively made redundant today, wouldn't you at least try to do a deal with your mortgage company to stay where you are? So much of this seems so over-the-top dramatic, somewhat apt given the woman at the top.
Depends on how deep in she is - she might be getting a salary out of all proportion to reality and is panicking now the wheels have come off.


REALIST123 said:
So, over £15M from £23M spent on staff costs.
There was a woman on the news last light who worked in finance in the Bristol office and she said money was being paid people that they had no idea what they did.

Edited by Sheepshanks on Thursday 6th August 09:38

hornetrider

63,161 posts

207 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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REALIST123 said:
So, over £15M from £23M spent on staff costs.
?????????????????????????????????????

Is that typical for a charity? Strikes me as being bonkers.

Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
London424 said:
Eric Mc said:
One interesting figure in the accounts of the charity is the Debtors figure of around £5 million at 31 December 2013. The total gross income of the charity was £23 million. They are therefore saying that almost almost 1/5 of the income shown in the profit and loss account had not yet been received at the year end date.

I'd like to know a little bit more about why this was the case. It does seem rather high for an organisation that essentially receives cash donations. Why would it have any significant "debtors" i.e. unrecieved donations, at all?
A Tesco? Booking profit not generated (or in this case, booking revenue ahead of receiving it?).
Exactly what I was thinking.

The accounts have been signed off as "True and Fair" by the auditors - so you would expect that the auditors that this was a legitimate figure in the accounts and properly disclosed.

Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
hornetrider said:
REALIST123 said:
So, over £15M from £23M spent on staff costs.
?????????????????????????????????????

Is that typical for a charity? Strikes me as being bonkers.
It varies depending on the nature of the work a charity does. Many charities are people intensive in that the charitable work is based on people "doing" things rather than just dishing out money to their target charitable activity.

GloverMart

11,896 posts

217 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
Not a fan of Mayor Ferguson but he was on Radio Bristol this morning saying that the council needs to hear from people who are Kids Company kids basically, implying that KC are being a little shy about handing over the information.

He also seemed to rebuff this figure of "600 vulnerable children" that KC are banding about, saying that it may well be the number of people they have come into contact with but that they are more concerned about the "40 or 50" children that really need help.

Have KC been inflating the figures? If they really are holding on to information and withholding it from the council, that is wrong on so many levels.

johnxjsc1985

15,948 posts

166 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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She was on the BBC this morning siting Dark Forces at work at the heart of the Establishment. She didn't have names but it was because she was so outspoken they felt the need to silence her.nuts
This is going to be interesting stuff over the next few weeks

Transmitter Man

4,253 posts

226 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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Are these the same dark forces that are drip feeding the public with dead, or brain dead peodo's rather than concentrating on those that are still service in public office?

Oakey

27,619 posts

218 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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So if the charity closes, what happens to the assets? I believe one building they bought cost £1.6million?

Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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They are supposedly insolvent so there are, in effect, no assets, only liabilities. However, the 2013 accounts do not show an insolvent situation.

The questions have to be,

a) did the insolvent position suddenly descend on the company in the 18 months since 31 December 2013 and, if so, why?

b) were the 2013 accounts not showing the true situation and, if that is the case, what were the auditors up to?


Oakey

27,619 posts

218 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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So because they have debtors to the tune of £5million anything they own, such as this building, would go to paying them off?

Camoradi

4,298 posts

258 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
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debtors are amounts owed to them by other parties

Amounts they owe to others are creditors

As an aside I just looked at the accounts of another charity with income in the region of £35 million per annum, and they are showing £9 million of debtors. £7.5 million of this is noted as "legacy debtors", presumably amounts due from wills not yet received, so £5 million of debtors for kids company may not be out of the ordinary

Edited by Camoradi on Thursday 6th August 10:30

Oakey

27,619 posts

218 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
Yeah, I just realised I meant creditors and came back to edit it (they owe £4.7million?) :P

drivin_me_nuts

Original Poster:

17,949 posts

213 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
What's on the BBC page at the moment is the flip side of the financial debate; the children that we as a society fail to look after.

It makes for interesting reading. You could argue it's the response of an angry woman who has lost what she believed in. You could argue that she's not taking responsibility for her personal and the charity failings.

Or perhaps the truth is a mixture of all things.

Taken from the BBC page,

"It's not about bad management on our part, it's about trying to sort out something that society isn't dealing with," she said.

Personally, I think she is wrong - it is about the management and in that, if there are failings they should be highlighted now... But the second part, I think she's absolutely spot on. We should not have to leave it to 'charity' to look after children who are the bottom of the heap in terms of everything worth measuring. The failings of children in this society are well documented and profuse. We, the bigger society fail them and that needs to addressed.




Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
Camoradi said:
debtors are amounts owed to them by other parties

Amounts they owe to others are creditors

As an aside I just looked at the accounts of another charity with income in the region of £35 million per annum, and they are showing £9 million of debtors. £7.5 million of this is noted as "legacy debtors", presumably amounts due from wills not yet received, so £5 million of debtors for kids company may not be out of the ordinary

Edited by Camoradi on Thursday 6th August 10:30
It seems a bit "previous" to be accounting for income that they may or may not receive - if that is indeed the explanation. That was what got Enron into its situation.

And what happens to such "pledged" income now that the charity is closed?

Camoradi

4,298 posts

258 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
It seems a bit "previous" to be accounting for income that they may or may not receive - if that is indeed the explanation. That was what got Enron into its situation.

And what happens to such "pledged" income now that the charity is closed?
I agree totally, Eric. It surprised me to see it in the other charity's accounts too

Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
I'm the treasurer of a small charity and I examine a number of charity accounts. None of them engage in such practices.

Smiler.

11,752 posts

232 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
drivin_me_nuts said:
What's on the BBC page at the moment is the flip side of the financial debate; the children that we as a society fail to look after.

It makes for interesting reading. You could argue it's the response of an angry woman who has lost what she believed in. You could argue that she's not taking responsibility for her personal and the charity failings.

Or perhaps the truth is a mixture of all things.

Taken from the BBC page,

"It's not about bad management on our part, it's about trying to sort out something that society isn't dealing with," she said.

Personally, I think she is wrong - it is about the management and in that, if there are failings they should be highlighted now... But the second part, I think she's absolutely spot on. We should not have to leave it to 'charity' to look after children who are the bottom of the heap in terms of everything worth measuring. The failings of children in this society are well documented and profuse. We, the bigger society fail them and that needs to addressed.
Spot on.

There is a pervasive attitude in vast groups within society today that are either too happy to let others shoulder the responsibility they should be taking, or are so far down the path of the liberal left indoctrination that they are simply unaware they ever had any.

I despair at what can be done to better the situation because I don't see things improving (or even standing still) anytime soon.

Eric Mc

122,272 posts

267 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
Maybe governments should re-examine their willingness to support charities directly. I think taxpayers' money should be for the jobs undertaken by the state. Charities should depend on public support from personal or corporate charitable donation - not government hand outs.

Sadly, politicians, whilst announcing cuts and restrictions on the things THEY should be responsible for, are only too willing to give away taxpayers' money to organisations which they feel will make them appear in a glowing light.

It was this attitude that allowed Jimmy Savile to carry on the way he did. Politicians always love to bask in the reflected glory of others - even if it turns out that the "glory" was perhaps, at the very least, misplaced - and in some cases, masking downright evil.

anonymous-user

56 months

Thursday 6th August 2015
quotequote all
drivin_me_nuts said:
What's on the BBC page at the moment is the flip side of the financial debate; the children that we as a society fail to look after.

It makes for interesting reading. You could argue it's the response of an angry woman who has lost what she believed in. You could argue that she's not taking responsibility for her personal and the charity failings.

Or perhaps the truth is a mixture of all things.

Taken from the BBC page,

"It's not about bad management on our part, it's about trying to sort out something that society isn't dealing with," she said.

Personally, I think she is wrong - it is about the management and in that, if there are failings they should be highlighted now... But the second part, I think she's absolutely spot on. We should not have to leave it to 'charity' to look after children who are the bottom of the heap in terms of everything worth measuring. The failings of children in this society are well documented and profuse. We, the bigger society fail them and that needs to addressed.
I understand what you're saying but the kids are failed, primarily and in the main, by their families, not society.

Some focus on family responsibility might not go amiss.