US journalist beheaded by ISIS...

[Jimbeaux]

Magog said:

Does anyone else think that possibly 'The West' simply doesn't want to defeat ISIS?

If all the radicalised youth are heading out to Syria they're not getting up to anything here, It must be useful having a place they can all head to, and the associated noise around it must be making it easier to pick up who is being radicalised etc.

If the US/UK etc did pile in, defeat ISIS etc, there would have to be troops on the ground, no one has the stomach for that. We'd almost certainly have to go after Assad as well, and then be embroiled in effectively a proxy war with Russia. Which is most definitely not in our interests, especially given what is going on in Ukraine.

I have to say I'm surprised by the Turkish actions, I wonder how much they fear domestic terrorism if they were to confront ISIS. It's pretty obvious they don't want to go it alone against them in Syria, and have no desire to see the Kurds gain more power. But as others have said they really did miss an opportunity for bridge building and upping their international standing by not deploying their forces to defend Kobani.

Maybe you are correct; just a layered and complex plot.

[TheRealFingers99]

Can't see the West wanting ISIS to win (although you'd have to define win). I mean, the endgame would be the destruction of the West as we know it.

On the plus side, the Kurds seem to have made limited gains in Kobane.

[knitware]

With the collapse of Syria imminent and the Kurds and IS killing each other my guess is that Turkey are waiting for the fighting to die down and then go into Syria and take back some of the land Turkey lost after WW1. Russia are doing it with Ukraine. Watch this space.

[V8Ford]

Interesting article in the Wail about some Dutch bikers joining the fight against ISIS. Interestingly the Dutch have deemed this legal, as they aren't fighting against their own forces.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2793128/th...

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Mermaid said:

BillPeart said:

Bush and Blair should be in the Hague and Obama put back in college where he can't do much harm.

Hallelujah

KareemK will be along to straighten you two right out because he speaks for many on here, just ask him. He is Obama's apologist and he is good at it.

No no, I happen to almost agree entirely with Bill, Bush and Blair in the Hague, excellent stuff.

That'll upset you more than me Mr Palin.

And boots on the ground is your solution eh? Well it worked in Iraq i suppose.

Oh, hang about.

Edited by KareemK on Tuesday 14th October 21:38

My solution is do it right or do not do it at all. Once more, concerning the hear and now; your solution is...???

And that's the rub - Experience is beginning to demonstrate thats its just not possible to 'do it right'.

We 'did it right' in Iraq we were told.



ISIS is (run by) the old Ba'ath party, regrouped and reinvigorated but this time highly radicalised and not confined to one area of land.

Now, if you accept the premise that it's just not possible to do it right what does that leave you with by way of options because to my mind THAT is your answer.

Einstein had a phrase for what you are suggesting.

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Mermaid said:

BillPeart said:

Bush and Blair should be in the Hague and Obama put back in college where he can't do much harm.

Hallelujah

KareemK will be along to straighten you two right out because he speaks for many on here, just ask him. He is Obama's apologist and he is good at it.

No no, I happen to almost agree entirely with Bill, Bush and Blair in the Hague, excellent stuff.

That'll upset you more than me Mr Palin.

And boots on the ground is your solution eh? Well it worked in Iraq i suppose.

Oh, hang about.

Edited by KareemK on Tuesday 14th October 21:38

My solution is do it right or do not do it at all. Once more, concerning the hear and now; your solution is...???

And that's the rub - Experience is beginning to demonstrate thats its just not possible to 'do it right'.

We 'did it right' in Iraq we were told.



ISIS is (run by) the old Ba'ath party, regrouped and reinvigorated but this time highly radicalised and not confined to one area of land.

Now, if you accept the premise that it's just not possible to do it right what does that leave you with by way of options because to my mind THAT is your answer.

Einstein had a phrase for what you are suggesting.

Is your solution to "do nothing"? If so, state such and can the riddles, they do not make you look clever. Again, what is your solution?

[Mermaid]

Jimbeaux said:

Is your solution to "do nothing"? If so, state such and can the riddles, they do not make you look clever. Again, what is your solution?

Like any disease, contain (minorities have to be catered for) let it implode on itself - Sunnis/Shias/Kurds/Alawites

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

Is your solution to "do nothing"? If so, state such and can the riddles, they do not make you look clever. Again, what is your solution?

My solution is to let ISIS be. No intervention from the the US/UK/NATO. It's a localised (ME) problem and should be dealt with as such.

There is more than enough fire power out there to bring an end to end if that is the will of the surrounding despots people. We do not need to be involved in what are intractable conflicts. This is the logical course to take. Let those most affected decide the outcome.

Whatever their motives, if Turkey doesn't want to get involved at this point and they actually border the 'war' what the hell are we doing over there?

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Is your solution to "do nothing"? If so, state such and can the riddles, they do not make you look clever. Again, what is your solution?

My solution is to let ISIS be. No intervention from the the US/UK/NATO. It's a localised (ME) problem and should be dealt with as such.

There is more than enough fire power out there to bring an end to end if that is the will of the surrounding despots people. We do not need to be involved in what are intractable conflicts. This is the logical course to take. Let those most affected decide the outcome.

Whatever their motives, if Turkey doesn't want to get involved at this point and they actually border the 'war' what the hell are we doing over there?

Thank you; whether you are correct or not, you (finally) answered the question. Your option is as valid as anyone's at this point.

[TheJimi]

Strategically, I don't think we can "let ISIS be".

ISIS, unchecked, have the potential to become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are and taking Erdogan's lead on the issue is folly, imo.

I'm genuinely surprised that an educated person with a grasp of world events doesn't understand that.

[Jimbeaux]

TheJimi said:

Strategically, I don't think we can "let ISIS be".

ISIS, unchecked, have the potential to become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are and taking Erdogan's lead on the issue is folly, imo.

I'm genuinely surprised that an educated person with a grasp of world events doesn't understand that.

Perhaps you assume too much.

[KareemK]

TheJimi said:

Strategically, I don't think we can "let ISIS be".

ISIS, unchecked, have the potential to become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are and taking Erdogan's lead on the issue is folly, imo.

I'm genuinely surprised that an educated person with a grasp of world events doesn't understand that.

And I'm genuinely surprised that anyone with a grasp of world events feels that ISIS could EVER become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are, even if they were able to actually establish their own 'state' - which is almost a fantasy in its own right. The danger to us is completely insignificant. Jimbeaux and I are more at risk from Ebola than we'll ever be from ISIS.

The problems ISIS pose are all political and thats an entirely different issue, they have started seizing Oil Fields after all

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

Perhaps you assume too much.

What was that about "not looking clever"

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Perhaps you assume too much.

What was that about "not looking clever"

I was not alluding to anyone in particular; are you feeling guilty?

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Perhaps you assume too much.

What was that about "not looking clever"

I was not alluding to anyone in particular; are you feeling guilty?

The last thing you could make me feel is 'Guilty' JB.

"Superior" perhaps

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

TheJimi said:

Strategically, I don't think we can "let ISIS be".

ISIS, unchecked, have the potential to become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are and taking Erdogan's lead on the issue is folly, imo.

I'm genuinely surprised that an educated person with a grasp of world events doesn't understand that.

And I'm genuinely surprised that anyone with a grasp of world events feels that ISIS could EVER become a FAR bigger problem than they currently are, even if they were able to actually establish their own 'state' - which is almost a fantasy in its own right. The danger to us is completely insignificant. Jimbeaux and I are more at risk from Ebola than we'll ever be from ISIS.

The problems ISIS pose are all political and thats an entirely different issue, they have started seizing Oil Fields after all

On an "apple vs. orange" lane switch.....ISIS radicals here at home/returning home may well pose a massive direct threat to the US/UK.

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

Perhaps you assume too much.

What was that about "not looking clever"

I was not alluding to anyone in particular; are you feeling guilty?

The last thing you could make me feel is 'Guilty' JB.

"Superior" perhaps

You cannot be superior, you live in the UK; it's not allowed.

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

On an "apple vs. orange" lane switch.....ISIS radicals here at home/returning home may well pose a massive direct threat to the US/UK.

Undoubtedly, we've been bombing them.

They won't be blowing up train stations in Buenos Aires or Helsinki though and I reckon I know why

[Jimbeaux]

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

On an "apple vs. orange" lane switch.....ISIS radicals here at home/returning home may well pose a massive direct threat to the US/UK.

Undoubtedly, we've been bombing them.

They won't be blowing up train stations in Buenos Aires or Helsinki though and I reckon I know why

Now come on K; they had us in their sights long before the first bomb fell. Being Infidels was plenty enough incintive for that.

[KareemK]

Jimbeaux said:

KareemK said:

Jimbeaux said:

On an "apple vs. orange" lane switch.....ISIS radicals here at home/returning home may well pose a massive direct threat to the US/UK.

Undoubtedly, we've been bombing them.

They won't be blowing up train stations in Buenos Aires or Helsinki though and I reckon I know why

Now come on K; they had us in their sights long before the first bomb fell. Being Infidels was plenty enough incintive for that.

The world has many countries run by infidels, but only a very few are at any risk, We know why that is right?

You and I are smart enough to be able to correlate the countries at risk to the countries that insist upon intervening militarily.

You're right of course because i'm kinda arguing for closing the stable door after the horse has moved state.