Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
dxg said:
Jesus titty f
king christ 
The driver totally hasn't seen the bike, you can see that the A-pillar is between him and the bike through most of that manoeuvre.
That is proper f
king scary though. Surprised the biker didn't move to the right, mind you he was probably in a state of disbelief that he hadn't been seen.
Digby said:
I hope I'm not being tarred with that brush? It's not hard to find comments by myself praising cyclists, having no issue if I have to wait behind them for long distances and finding myself being thanked by them regularly etc.
My views are based on what I see and not, as yours appear to be, based on a a dislike of any other form of transport.You appear to be indenial regarding the regular & near suicidal movements of certain cyclists.I'm simply wondering why they do it and how can they be stopped from doing so.As I said before, they are either unaware of the dangers, or simply don't care.
And yet "risky" cycling only accounts for a tiny proportion of cyclist casualties.My views are based on what I see and not, as yours appear to be, based on a a dislike of any other form of transport.You appear to be indenial regarding the regular & near suicidal movements of certain cyclists.I'm simply wondering why they do it and how can they be stopped from doing so.As I said before, they are either unaware of the dangers, or simply don't care.
It's generally not cyclist's behaviour that is leading to their injury - it's the behaviour of the tested and licenced drivers. You could make all cyclists behave perfectly, and it wouldn't have much impact on road safety.
Dick Turpin said:
If anyone else trots out that 2009 newspaper article about a report about a report 
We've covered it before. Read the proper report if you want to see what it really says.
As long as we continue to try to place fault in one box or the other we're not going to solve the problem
It's the interaction between the various users that counts.
Without interaction we wouldnt have this thread
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st July 09:08
saaby93 said:
Dick Turpin said:
If anyone else trots out that 2009 newspaper article about a report about a report We've covered it before. Read the proper report if you want to see what it really says.
As long as we continue to try to place fault in one box or the other we're not going to solve the problem
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st July 09:04
For some reason people still want to blame cyclists for their own deaths, yet you have nothing to say about that.
London is full of the fDick Turpin could have said:
I have read the whole report. It is driver's behaviour that is responsible for just over half the majority of cyclist injuries and cyclists the rest
Dick Turpin said:
For some reason people still want to blame cyclists for their own deaths, yet you have nothing to say about that.
And stop playing strawman Saying something which somone hasnt said then arguing against it as if they had
or you'll get other people playing the same game
As for as I can tell no one has said anywhere that anyone 'wants' to blame cyclists for their own deaths until your post.
On the other hand you only have to read the coroners reports to see that some are responsible some arent. That's not to say they 'wanted' it that way.
No one that day will have wanted the day to end that way
Have a look at what youre writing.
Then try to work out whats putting cyclists and the road users they interact with, into this position
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st July 09:41
kapiteinlangzaam said:
Trucker also doesnt seem to give a st about the motorcyclist.
A "sorry" and "are you OK" probably wouldnt have gone amiss at some point
Yeah I can't believe his reaction either, what an at about the motorcyclist.A "sorry" and "are you OK" probably wouldnt have gone amiss at some point
hole. Steps out of the cab and doesn't even acknowledge the bloke he has just run over!hornetrider said:
Yeah I can't believe his reaction either, what an ahole. Steps out of the cab and doesn't even acknowledge the bloke he has just run over!
Looks like he's in disbelief - how did that bike get under therehole. Steps out of the cab and doesn't even acknowledge the bloke he has just run over!He 'knows' he didnt do anything and he didnt see the motorbike drive under there, so how did it happen?
I think we could do with seeing the driver reaction to the video
saaby93 said:
As for as I can tell no one has said anywhere that anyone 'wants' to blame cyclists for their own deaths until your post.
Have a look at what youre writing.
Then try to work out whats putting cyclists and the road users they interact with, into this position
Irony off the chart.Have a look at what youre writing.
Then try to work out whats putting cyclists and the road users they interact with, into this position
1. Learn what a figure of speech is, it will help you understand English. HINT: "wants to" was not meant literally. You are being obtuse or are genuinely a bit slow.
2. His writing is fine. Yours, on the other hand, is shocking. I can't believe I am paying PH subs for it, frankly.
3. The report of a report which you KEEP DISMISSING FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON helps us work out what is putting cyclists into this position. POOR DRIVING in the majority of adult cases.
Yet we have repetitive morons insisting that their anecdotal evidence of "suicidal" cyclists, who magically appear not to hurt themselves very often, trump proper independent research.
If you don't want to accept the reality of the problem in most cases then perhaps you should stop starting threads about it and insisting that we need to treat both parties as if they are equally responsible.
Just perhaps that ISN'T the answer, despite you repeating it every 5 posts without any evidence or back-up at all.
Strawman? I don't think you are close to understanding what that really means.
swerni said:
Yesterday London looked like a scene from a Die Hard movie.
They weren't hanging around either
I'll say it again - while in central London, there needs to be another person in that cab responsible for the nearside safety.They weren't hanging around either
Redesigned trucks would be ideal but until then, you have to go the simple way.
Oi! Cyclist! Get off the footpath! 
walm said:
3. The report of a report which you KEEP DISMISSING FOR ABSOLUTELY NO REASON helps us work out what is putting cyclists into this position. POOR DRIVING in the majority of adult cases.
I have no problem with the report although as it's old I've temporarily lost the link to it now - do you have it 
Trouble is when you write something like poor driving majority that reads as though it's 99.9% and all you have to do is sort poor driving and you've solved the problem.
Same as when one person says suicidal cyclists and - aha thats the problem.
The figures were not those, the report didnt say that and nor does it say it will solve the problem
Until those that are on their hobbyhorse one side or the other get off it, we're not going to move any further forward than we are
dxg said:
Zelda from Terrahawks seems more friendly these days.saaby93 said:
Trouble is when you write something like poor driving majority that reads as though it's 99.9% and all you have to do is sort poor driving and you've solved the problem.
No - no it doesn't.Yet more irony that the man trying to point out others' strawmen has to resort to one himself.
No one is even remotely close to suggesting what you have written there.
CBA with the link, those who read it rarely understand it - like Otto in A Fish Called Wanda - he is reading Nietzsche but he isn't understanding it. The London Underground is NOT a political movement, I looked it up.
While I would be inclined to "get off the hobbyhorse" it makes common sense that in a world of limited resources the first approach should be to tackle an issue with something that will have the biggest impact.
And if that report is right then stopping bad driving would prevent the majority of vehicle-cyclist collisions.
Note - majority does not mean 99.9% for the hard of thinking or those trying to find that elusive strawman.
So something like adding a special bike awareness element to the driving test might help - who knows - we never discuss these issues.
We spend the whole time suggesting that morons who blame suicidal cyclists don't have the faintest clue what they are talking about.
Sure - it's part of the problem - but it isn't the biggest let alone the ONLY problem - and again we should start where we can have the biggest impact - drivers.
walm said:
saaby93 said:
Trouble is when you write something like poor driving majority that reads as though it's 99.9% and all you have to do is sort poor driving and you've solved the problem.
No - no it doesn't.Yet more irony that the man trying to point out others' strawmen has to resort to one himself.
No one is even remotely close to suggesting what you have written there.
The report was something like 55:45 so if you try to solve both angles, why are they both getting it wrong and bring in the road layout youre probably closer to the mark. If I remember rightly it was a UK report rather a London one so the balance may be different
Some mitigation is going on anyway because at the time some proportion of the cycling deaths were due to jumping red lights. I think many motorists are aware of that now so often allow for it but sometimes they'll be caught out.
There were mainly collisions on the one hand due to motorists not looking properly and on the other cyclists not doing same
Some of that may be attributable to road layout, you have to ask why someone ended up doing something rather than point the finger look what's happened (i.e. look at the before rather than the afer)
But unless someone can dig out the old report we're a bit in the dark and it is 6 years old now.
Our best indicator may be to look at what we can see happening from the posts now that there are videos
here, bearing in mind most if not all of those will have passed off safely.
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 21st July 14:23
Dick Turpin said:
Digby said:
I hope I'm not being tarred with that brush? It's not hard to find comments by myself praising cyclists, having no issue if I have to wait behind them for long distances and finding myself being thanked by them regularly etc.
My views are based on what I see and not, as yours appear to be, based on a a dislike of any other form of transport.You appear to be indenial regarding the regular & near suicidal movements of certain cyclists.I'm simply wondering why they do it and how can they be stopped from doing so.As I said before, they are either unaware of the dangers, or simply don't care.
And yet "risky" cycling only accounts for a tiny proportion of cyclist casualties.My views are based on what I see and not, as yours appear to be, based on a a dislike of any other form of transport.You appear to be indenial regarding the regular & near suicidal movements of certain cyclists.I'm simply wondering why they do it and how can they be stopped from doing so.As I said before, they are either unaware of the dangers, or simply don't care.
It's generally not cyclist's behaviour that is leading to their injury - it's the behaviour of the tested and licenced drivers. You could make all cyclists behave perfectly, and it wouldn't have much impact on road safety.
You won't find these stats, obviously, but talk to almost any heavy goods driver in London and they will tell you of dozens of incidents where someone was almost dragged under their wheels or simply punted off etc had they not been on top of their game.
I had another incident today whilst I turned right.A short while earlier, a cyclist was on my left hand side some way back.A car flashed me to turn, I checked ALL the mirrors again, saw him still on my left, began to move and he flew down my right hand side which due to my position put him on the other side of the road.Had I not glanced right (bearing in mind I was still looking for him at the rear left due to the overhang swing of the truck), and had I not hit the brakes, he would have been another statistic.
The same can be said during many left turns where despite my vehicle being mid-turn, they ride down my inside and actually have to enter the head of the road I am turning in to before swerving round the cab and darting out the other side.Absolute madness.
One of the worst scenarios I come across is when riders 'test' the gap between myself and other vehicles etc.I have no idea why you would put yourself in such a position.Again, lack of understanding or lack of caring?
It happens often.Far too often.There are a lot of riders out there only still able to ride because of drivers like myself, however, as with most things HGV related, our actions go unnoticed.
Dick Turpin said:
I have read the whole report. It's crystal clear that it is driver's behaviour that is responsible for the majority of cyclist injuries, yet people like Digby above still pretend that the reason is "suicidal" cyclists. To which that article is a useful riposte.
I have never denied that the majority of accidents are due to the "I didn't see you" brigade etc.It happens a lot (although I have yet to see it myself).My point is simply that given how exposed you are on a bike, you need to be aware of all the risks.Even as someone who rarely rides a bike on City streets, I constantly look at youtube clips where the rider is chastising a driver and I think to myself that I either wouldn't have put myself in such a position, or I wouldn't have been riding so quickly at such a specific point.That's not to say there are not thousands of clips showing genuine dullards behind the wheel, because there are.I would never deny there is a problem with those types of people just as I would never deny there is a problem with those types of riders.
Edited by Digby on Tuesday 21st July 17:01
Ghibli said:
swisstoni said:
I'll say it again - while in central London, there needs to be another person in that cab responsible for the nearside safety.
Redesigned trucks would be ideal but until then, you have to go the simple way.
The safer lorry scheme, 1st Sept 2015Redesigned trucks would be ideal but until then, you have to go the simple way.
More mirrors are not the answer, although they help to a degree.I would like to see more of the large mirrors placed on poles at certain junctions, however.They are the type you see outside rural driveways etc and offer a superb view of all that is going on alongside the truck.I think I have seen approx four so far :/
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