Man shot dead on M62 in pre-planned police operation
Discussion
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Are they breaking the law?
Would you get out of that car and start trying to lock someone up?
ts they've crossed the line. But that didn't happen. That whole night that dead dealers mates were tearing up the town but AFAIK there were no arrests. That's what grates. Seeing them attack a police car with no repercussions baffles the majority of the general public. If you won't even stand up for your own, how can you stand up for them. It just looks toothless.I'm sure some of the Bradford force would've loved to go in and teach them a lesson but we're ordered not to. It's not the guys in the firing line that annoy me, it's the pandering culture we seem to adopt with these assholes. So fearful of being branded racist. It's the climate we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into and they know it. And use it to their advantage.
You think they'd get away with it in America or Russia?
Tip up mob handed, scoop a few prisoners and you'll have days of trouble, who's going to deal with that? Have you not seen in the news that the police aren't coping with daily business let alone these idiots?
The police can't deal with groups like this, it's not about being toothless, it's about being hugely under resourced. Ask any bobby and they'll want to go and take a few scalps but they won't have the staff to do it.
It's easier to round them up one at a time later on, on the police's terms not an angry group of retards.
Would those in the car not be radioing for back up? Surely they weren't told that they'd just have to sit it out?
When they start attacking the police, all bets should be off. You should go in and teach them a lesson. Anything else just looks weak.
If you say that the police can't deal with a small group of prats like this, then something is seriously wrong. It's more than just underfunding. It's the racial pandering element too.
Doesn't watching that make your blood boil? If you'd been there with sufficient back up, surely self respect would drive you to pile in and show them they've crossed a line.
If you're ordered not to, it must be frustrating.
Gameface - the problem is that when you get a response you don't like, you try to spin it and make out that you know best.
That happened in the thread about confidence in the police - without you being able to back up your "facts' - and it has happened on this thread.
You have been ruder to me than I have to you - I have not sworn at you (but you have at me).
If you don't like the gangsta jibes then try not making out you're some sort of master criminal.
You reap what you sow.
That happened in the thread about confidence in the police - without you being able to back up your "facts' - and it has happened on this thread.
You have been ruder to me than I have to you - I have not sworn at you (but you have at me).
If you don't like the gangsta jibes then try not making out you're some sort of master criminal.
You reap what you sow.
Edited by Red 4 on Friday 29th December 16:13
Red 4 said:
Gameface - the problem is that when you get a response you don't like, you try to spin it and make out that you know best.
That happened in the thread about confidence in the police - without you being able to back up your "facts' - and it has happened on this thread.
You have been ruder to me than I have to you - I have not sworn at you (but you have at me).
If you don't like the gangsta jibes then try not making out you're some sort of master criminal.
You reap what you sow.
Knew you'd need the last word. Just couldn't help yourself That happened in the thread about confidence in the police - without you being able to back up your "facts' - and it has happened on this thread.
You have been ruder to me than I have to you - I have not sworn at you (but you have at me).
If you don't like the gangsta jibes then try not making out you're some sort of master criminal.
You reap what you sow.
Edited by Red 4 on Friday 29th December 16:13
How you talk embarrasses the other more eloquent coppers on here.
I'm happy to converse with them. I will not respond to you again, however.
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Are they breaking the law?
Would you get out of that car and start trying to lock someone up?ts they've crossed the line. But that didn't happen. That whole night that dead dealers mates were tearing up the town but AFAIK there were no arrests. That's what grates. Seeing them attack a police car with no repercussions baffles the majority of the general public. If you won't even stand up for your own, how can you stand up for them. It just looks toothless.I'm sure some of the Bradford force would've loved to go in and teach them a lesson but we're ordered not to. It's not the guys in the firing line that annoy me, it's the pandering culture we seem to adopt with these assholes. So fearful of being branded racist. It's the climate we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into and they know it. And use it to their advantage.
You think they'd get away with it in America or Russia?
Tip up mob handed, scoop a few prisoners and you'll have days of trouble, who's going to deal with that? Have you not seen in the news that the police aren't coping with daily business let alone these idiots?
The police can't deal with groups like this, it's not about being toothless, it's about being hugely under resourced. Ask any bobby and they'll want to go and take a few scalps but they won't have the staff to do it.
It's easier to round them up one at a time later on, on the police's terms not an angry group of retards.
Would those in the car not be radioing for back up? Surely they weren't told that they'd just have to sit it out?
When they start attacking the police, all bets should be off. You should go in and teach them a lesson. Anything else just looks weak.
If you say that the police can't deal with a small group of prats like this, then something is seriously wrong. It's more than just underfunding. It's the racial pandering element too.
Doesn't watching that make your blood boil? If you'd been there with sufficient back up, surely self respect would drive you to pile in and show them they've crossed a line.
If you're ordered not to, it must be frustrating.
I've dealt with protests etc and had to sit in a van watching people taking the piss wanting to get out. It does make my blood boil but as soon as you get out and start lifting people you'd better have the numbers to deal with what it creates.
We've also been tasked with policing areas similar to Bradford only to be told to leave. In a nutshell there were people parking where they want causing chaos. The local bobbies were failing to get a grip on it so we were tasked with helping them out.
Within 10 minutes of getting off the van, ticketing a car and then having a face off with with the owner and his crew we were pulled out. We were being watched on CCTV and the local Inspector s
t a brick and put an end to it....... We would have had them as well 
In all seriousness it's soul destroying turning your back on a group of idiots like that but spineless higher ranks dictate what we do, sadly. We'd have a dust up, lock a few up and leave bit it's his troops that have to continue to walk those streets when we're not there.
Gameface said:
Read it yourself again slowly.
Motorway. Barriers.
Yes I was aware of that.Motorway. Barriers.
If you're coming off the motorway @70mph and you notice a group of people stood behind a barrier my first reaction would be to slow down much quicker, just in case there's another hazard that I'm not aware of. It's an unnecessary distraction.
I don't think it's a safe place to hold a vigil, regardless of whether people are behind barriers or not.
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Are they breaking the law?
Would you get out of that car and start trying to lock someone up?ts they've crossed the line. But that didn't happen. That whole night that dead dealers mates were tearing up the town but AFAIK there were no arrests. That's what grates. Seeing them attack a police car with no repercussions baffles the majority of the general public. If you won't even stand up for your own, how can you stand up for them. It just looks toothless.I'm sure some of the Bradford force would've loved to go in and teach them a lesson but we're ordered not to. It's not the guys in the firing line that annoy me, it's the pandering culture we seem to adopt with these assholes. So fearful of being branded racist. It's the climate we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into and they know it. And use it to their advantage.
You think they'd get away with it in America or Russia?
Tip up mob handed, scoop a few prisoners and you'll have days of trouble, who's going to deal with that? Have you not seen in the news that the police aren't coping with daily business let alone these idiots?
The police can't deal with groups like this, it's not about being toothless, it's about being hugely under resourced. Ask any bobby and they'll want to go and take a few scalps but they won't have the staff to do it.
It's easier to round them up one at a time later on, on the police's terms not an angry group of retards.
Would those in the car not be radioing for back up? Surely they weren't told that they'd just have to sit it out?
When they start attacking the police, all bets should be off. You should go in and teach them a lesson. Anything else just looks weak.
If you say that the police can't deal with a small group of prats like this, then something is seriously wrong. It's more than just underfunding. It's the racial pandering element too.
Doesn't watching that make your blood boil? If you'd been there with sufficient back up, surely self respect would drive you to pile in and show them they've crossed a line.
If you're ordered not to, it must be frustrating.
I've dealt with protests etc and had to sit in a van watching people taking the piss wanting to get out. It does make my blood boil but as soon as you get out and start lifting people you'd better have the numbers to deal with what it creates.
We've also been tasked with policing areas similar to Bradford only to be told to leave. In a nutshell there were people parking where they want causing chaos. The local bobbies were failing to get a grip on it so we were tasked with helping them out.
Within 10 minutes of getting off the van, ticketing a car and then having a face off with with the owner and his crew we were pulled out. We were being watched on CCTV and the local Inspector s
t a brick and put an end to it....... We would have had them as well In all seriousness it's soul destroying turning your back on a group of idiots like that but spineless higher ranks dictate what we do, sadly. We'd have a dust up, lock a few up and leave bit it's his troops that have to continue to walk those streets when we're not there.
Surely the brass must see that allowing these prats to smash up a police car with the officers inside it, and plaster it all over social media, with not even an attempt to arrest them, will lead to more of the same.
Where's the deterrent? Where's the fear of getting clumped with a baton? How many lines are they allowed to cross?
They are laughing at you. And your bosses and society as a whole are letting them.
Something needs to change. Less pandering and more funding would be a good start.
Gameface said:
Knew you'd need the last word. Just couldn't help yourself
How you talk embarrasses the other more eloquent coppers on here.
I'm happy to converse with them. I will not respond to you again, however.
How do you know what embarrasses the other officers/ former officers on here ?How you talk embarrasses the other more eloquent coppers on here.
I'm happy to converse with them. I will not respond to you again, however.
Nice of you to speak for them.
Like I said - if someone asks a *genuine* question, or if they've been given duff info on here, I'll try to help if I can (not that I know it all).
If you try to goad people don't be surprised if you get a bit back.
That's especially the case on SP&L and NP&E on here.
Everyone's got an opinion.
Some people take other's opinions on board. Some don't. Sometimes it gets a bit heated.
You've toned your posts down.
I can too.
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Greendubber said:
Gameface said:
Are they breaking the law?
Would you get out of that car and start trying to lock someone up?ts they've crossed the line. But that didn't happen. That whole night that dead dealers mates were tearing up the town but AFAIK there were no arrests. That's what grates. Seeing them attack a police car with no repercussions baffles the majority of the general public. If you won't even stand up for your own, how can you stand up for them. It just looks toothless.I'm sure some of the Bradford force would've loved to go in and teach them a lesson but we're ordered not to. It's not the guys in the firing line that annoy me, it's the pandering culture we seem to adopt with these assholes. So fearful of being branded racist. It's the climate we've allowed ourselves to be drawn into and they know it. And use it to their advantage.
You think they'd get away with it in America or Russia?
Tip up mob handed, scoop a few prisoners and you'll have days of trouble, who's going to deal with that? Have you not seen in the news that the police aren't coping with daily business let alone these idiots?
The police can't deal with groups like this, it's not about being toothless, it's about being hugely under resourced. Ask any bobby and they'll want to go and take a few scalps but they won't have the staff to do it.
It's easier to round them up one at a time later on, on the police's terms not an angry group of retards.
Would those in the car not be radioing for back up? Surely they weren't told that they'd just have to sit it out?
When they start attacking the police, all bets should be off. You should go in and teach them a lesson. Anything else just looks weak.
If you say that the police can't deal with a small group of prats like this, then something is seriously wrong. It's more than just underfunding. It's the racial pandering element too.
Doesn't watching that make your blood boil? If you'd been there with sufficient back up, surely self respect would drive you to pile in and show them they've crossed a line.
If you're ordered not to, it must be frustrating.
I've dealt with protests etc and had to sit in a van watching people taking the piss wanting to get out. It does make my blood boil but as soon as you get out and start lifting people you'd better have the numbers to deal with what it creates.
We've also been tasked with policing areas similar to Bradford only to be told to leave. In a nutshell there were people parking where they want causing chaos. The local bobbies were failing to get a grip on it so we were tasked with helping them out.
Within 10 minutes of getting off the van, ticketing a car and then having a face off with with the owner and his crew we were pulled out. We were being watched on CCTV and the local Inspector s
t a brick and put an end to it....... We would have had them as well In all seriousness it's soul destroying turning your back on a group of idiots like that but spineless higher ranks dictate what we do, sadly. We'd have a dust up, lock a few up and leave bit it's his troops that have to continue to walk those streets when we're not there.
Surely the brass must see that allowing these prats to smash up a police car with the officers inside it, and plaster it all over social media, with not even an attempt to arrest them, will lead to more of the same.
Where's the deterrent? Where's the fear of getting clumped with a baton? How many lines are they allowed to cross?
They are laughing at you. And your bosses and society as a whole are letting them.
Something needs to change. Less pandering and more funding would be a good start.
We have our hands tied at the moment and people are realising that the police aren't the deterrent to acting the t
t as they used to be. Frustrating.
Gameface said:
It's all political isn't it.
Surely the brass must see that allowing these prats to smash up a police car with the officers inside it, and plaster it all over social media, with not even an attempt to arrest them, will lead to more of the same.
If you're dealing with a spontaneous gathering/protest/demonstration/riot without prior warning, you need numerous police officers on tap (in order to deal with it in an organised and safe fashion.)Surely the brass must see that allowing these prats to smash up a police car with the officers inside it, and plaster it all over social media, with not even an attempt to arrest them, will lead to more of the same.
This reserve of officers doesn't exist.
A philosophical attitude is required at times.
Two mantras served me well in this regard.
1. The police always win in the end. The crims end up dead, reformed/grown up or in jail.
2. And I don't have to live here. My life is immeasurably better.
May not have been much, but it helps to keep a sense of proportion.
Two mantras served me well in this regard.
1. The police always win in the end. The crims end up dead, reformed/grown up or in jail.
2. And I don't have to live here. My life is immeasurably better.
May not have been much, but it helps to keep a sense of proportion.
I would happily pay a bit more to have officers on the streets to scoop up the troublemakers. The reality is there is not enough officers and a previous post that said there are 30000 officers in the Met but just 90000 for the rest of the country, if true is shocking. Is London that more special and is that why MP's think there are plenty as they must be falling over them.
I want the police to cut crime, to be supported in doing so by bosses with balls who do not pander to the groups who shout loudest. I do not care if they are black, white, Asian, Gypsies or any other group, do wrong and they should be no where police are stopped going.
If the police are not allowed to do the job then we will see others taking the law into their own hands more and more.
I want the police to cut crime, to be supported in doing so by bosses with balls who do not pander to the groups who shout loudest. I do not care if they are black, white, Asian, Gypsies or any other group, do wrong and they should be no where police are stopped going.
If the police are not allowed to do the job then we will see others taking the law into their own hands more and more.
spaximus said:
The reality is there is not enough officers and a previous post that said there are 30000 officers in the Met but just 90000 for the rest of the country, if true is shocking. Is London that more special and is that why MP's think there are plenty as they must be falling over them.
It is true.You may be even more shocked if you work out how many officers will be actually be available at any given time.
Those figures include all ranks.
Now factor in the shift system, officers carrying out "non-operational" duties, office dwellers, abstractions for training, appearing at court, off sick, ......... you get the drift.
France has a similar population to ours.
They have 100,000 more police (almost double).
Edited by Red 4 on Saturday 30th December 13:47
Red 4 said:
spaximus said:
The reality is there is not enough officers and a previous post that said there are 30000 officers in the Met but just 90000 for the rest of the country, if true is shocking. Is London that more special and is that why MP's think there are plenty as they must be falling over them.
It is true.You may be even more shocked if you work out how many officers will be actually be available at any given time.
Those figures include all ranks.
Now factor in the shift system, officers carrying out "non-operational" duties, office dwellers, abstractions for training, appearing at court, off sick, ......... you get the drift.
France has a similar population to ours.
They have 100,000 more police (almost double).
Edited by Red 4 on Saturday 30th December 13:47
Mothersruin said:
How do the UK/France crime rates compare?
France - total crimes - 3.77 million.Crimes per 1000 population - 61.03
UK - total crimes - 6.52 million
Crimes per 1000 population - 109.96
Previously quoted figures for police numbers are for England & Wales only.
Add another 17,000 for Police Scotland, so about 137,000 for UK (not inc N.I./ PSNI because I CBA checking).
France have about 220,000 - 99% armed if you are thinking about terrorist threat.
Bang (pun) on topic:
Yassar Yaqub shooting: Dad tells critics to 'grow up'
Dad says: "Yassar was a very good son who would do anything for anybody.”
73 comments on that page and counting, mostly along these lines:
"I'm guessing if you're carrying a hand gun then you're prepared to use it on someone. if you're prepared to use it then you should be prepared to get shot. simple as that."
or
"Jesus, this bloke doesn’t give in. Get over it your son was a scum bag"
Yassar Yaqub shooting: Dad tells critics to 'grow up'
Dad says: "Yassar was a very good son who would do anything for anybody.”
73 comments on that page and counting, mostly along these lines:
"I'm guessing if you're carrying a hand gun then you're prepared to use it on someone. if you're prepared to use it then you should be prepared to get shot. simple as that."
or
"Jesus, this bloke doesn’t give in. Get over it your son was a scum bag"
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