Austerity - how long now?
Discussion
Bing o said:
Robsti said:
The papers today telling us the country has turned the corner!
Try telling that to the man on the street!
Is this the man on the street who is realinsing that 25k a year wage for paper shuffling is not enough to support 2 foreign holidays a year, Sky, a plasma telly and a new car every 3 years?Try telling that to the man on the street!
d ! No wonder he is moaning! 
ralphrj said:
Despite having the handicap of being a member of the labour party even this bloke understands the reality.
Then perhaps he should have a wquiet but forceful word with Ed Balls[up]?Alan Milburn said:
The truth is this: the era of big public spending is over. Austerity is the new normal. It is not a temporary phenomenon. Fiscal conservatism is the order of the day.
Given poor state of western economies including desperate state of Europe, optimism of this thread seems misplaced. Positive blips will occur in the inevitable downward trend, only reaching equilibrium when the UK's prosperity and standard of living matches our true worth - much lower than today.
Get the impression we are being conditioned for much worse to come. Can't imagine a turnround in less than 30 years and possibly much longer, after many of us are dead. Sorry guys but the outlook is bleak. Another thread asks the appropriate question:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Get the impression we are being conditioned for much worse to come. Can't imagine a turnround in less than 30 years and possibly much longer, after many of us are dead. Sorry guys but the outlook is bleak. Another thread asks the appropriate question:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Austerity for ever. By which I mean building up reserves in the good years and spending them in the bad years - prudent economic management.
Unfortunately any party suggesting that as a good route to take would be beaten in an election by any party that promises everything to everyone, funded on borrowing. Keep the borrowing for big infrastructure projects, not the day-to-day running of the country.
Unfortunately any party suggesting that as a good route to take would be beaten in an election by any party that promises everything to everyone, funded on borrowing. Keep the borrowing for big infrastructure projects, not the day-to-day running of the country.
bigdog3 said:
Given poor state of western economies including desperate state of Europe, optimism of this thread seems misplaced. Positive blips will occur in the inevitable downward trend, only reaching equilibrium when the UK's prosperity and standard of living matches our true worth - much lower than today.
Get the impression we are being conditioned for much worse to come. Can't imagine a turnround in less than 30 years and possibly much longer, after many of us are dead. Sorry guys but the outlook is bleak. Another thread asks the appropriate question:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
agree, the situation in america is just as bleak if not more so. I was sent this the other day and while its a little tin hat he does have some points. Get the impression we are being conditioned for much worse to come. Can't imagine a turnround in less than 30 years and possibly much longer, after many of us are dead. Sorry guys but the outlook is bleak. Another thread asks the appropriate question:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
http://www.lombardidigital.com/lcpa-sept26/index_c...
It's going to be a long, long process and probably semi-permanent.
I think the policies pursued from the mid-90s onwards by both Tories and Labour have masked the UK's true value to such an extent that it's almost impossible to see. People's living standards were beefed up through cheaper credit, heavy welfare subsidies and tax credits, mostly funded by excessive government borrowing. It's been that way for nigh on 20 years and has masked more serious socio-economic problems in the UK.
It is a huge problem for Labour and Social Democratic parties in Europe. They have always relied on the market to provide wealth which enabled them to indulge in large public spending, which ultimately turned out to be highly excessive and unsustainable. There's no way they can go back to those sort of policies and they have no ideas (doesn't mean they won't get elected though).
Britain has been in a slow, long-term decline over the last 100 years. It was the first great industrial nation but once other nations with bigger populations and more resources acquired the same skills it was inevitable that they would overtake us. The key for Britain's future economic growth is to export more high-tech goods and services to growing countries that are not able to produce their own yet but the Tories have done c*ck all to try and help Britain's growth.
There's also a huge problem with Britain's workforce. The huge workless underclass that have subsisted on benefits for 2 or 3 generations are the descendants of former working class factory workers, coal miners and dockers etc. Despite all the talk about waging war on benefits, there is no realistic prospect of these people ever returning to economically productive lives in any way, shape, or form and certainly not in large numbers. They haven't got the skills to even be remotely employable in any meaningful industry and immigrant labour is increasingly preferred. They are a massive social and economic problem that will affect the UK more and more in the future in terms of demand on public finances.
I think the policies pursued from the mid-90s onwards by both Tories and Labour have masked the UK's true value to such an extent that it's almost impossible to see. People's living standards were beefed up through cheaper credit, heavy welfare subsidies and tax credits, mostly funded by excessive government borrowing. It's been that way for nigh on 20 years and has masked more serious socio-economic problems in the UK.
It is a huge problem for Labour and Social Democratic parties in Europe. They have always relied on the market to provide wealth which enabled them to indulge in large public spending, which ultimately turned out to be highly excessive and unsustainable. There's no way they can go back to those sort of policies and they have no ideas (doesn't mean they won't get elected though).
Britain has been in a slow, long-term decline over the last 100 years. It was the first great industrial nation but once other nations with bigger populations and more resources acquired the same skills it was inevitable that they would overtake us. The key for Britain's future economic growth is to export more high-tech goods and services to growing countries that are not able to produce their own yet but the Tories have done c*ck all to try and help Britain's growth.
There's also a huge problem with Britain's workforce. The huge workless underclass that have subsisted on benefits for 2 or 3 generations are the descendants of former working class factory workers, coal miners and dockers etc. Despite all the talk about waging war on benefits, there is no realistic prospect of these people ever returning to economically productive lives in any way, shape, or form and certainly not in large numbers. They haven't got the skills to even be remotely employable in any meaningful industry and immigrant labour is increasingly preferred. They are a massive social and economic problem that will affect the UK more and more in the future in terms of demand on public finances.
nelly1 said:
Until Labour gets back into power?
Going on 'popular opinion' (polls), not long then
God help us all!
Labour have no chance of getting back into office, at least not this time around. Its a way off before General Election but I have a hunch it will be another Con/Lib-Dem Coalition. So many votes will go the way of minor Parties that again no overall winner.Going on 'popular opinion' (polls), not long then
God help us all!
heppers75 said:
^^^ This....
You have to be a very special kind of tit to think that we are enduring anything remotely resembling austerity! It is all but laughable, we need an ENORMOUS cull in spending and mostly in the public sector and social servies area and you know what it will be very very hard when it happens I think the likes of student protest and poll tax riots will seem like convivial dinner disagreements!
When you grant people the ability to feather their nest from the largesse of the public purse they and their followers who were granted such largesse to keep those in power who granted it will revolt and it will be bloody!
In fairness we are told that this will be the first year of genuine austerity when most 'ordinary' people will start to feel the financial pain.You have to be a very special kind of tit to think that we are enduring anything remotely resembling austerity! It is all but laughable, we need an ENORMOUS cull in spending and mostly in the public sector and social servies area and you know what it will be very very hard when it happens I think the likes of student protest and poll tax riots will seem like convivial dinner disagreements!
When you grant people the ability to feather their nest from the largesse of the public purse they and their followers who were granted such largesse to keep those in power who granted it will revolt and it will be bloody!
Edited by heppers75 on Monday 27th February 21:39
heppers75 said:
hornet said:
Can't really answer the question without first defining what we mean by "austerity". I was under the impression overall public spending was still increasing, just not as quickly as previously? I'd hardly call that austere.
^^^ This.... You have to be a very special kind of tit to think that we are enduring anything remotely resembling austerity! It is all but laughable, we need an ENORMOUS cull in spending and mostly in the public sector and social servies area and you know what it will be very very hard when it happens I think the likes of student protest and poll tax riots will seem like convivial dinner disagreements!
When you grant people the ability to feather their nest from the largesse of the public purse they and their followers who were granted such largesse to keep those in power who granted it will revolt and it will be bloody!
Edited by heppers75 on Monday 27th February 21:39
When a private company makes large lay-offs the payback is usually 12 months or more, not instant.
Not to mention the government committed to real terms increase in health spending (which is the biggest department).
crankedup said:
Labour have no chance of getting back into office, at least not this time around. Its a way off before General Election but I have a hunch it will be another Con/Lib-Dem Coalition. So many votes will go the way of minor Parties that again no overall winner.
The LibDems are down from 23% at the last election to 9% now.There isn't a hope in hell that they will help form another coalition until their current behaviour fades from public memory.
It is beginning to look like UKIP, assisted by the current situation in the Eurozone, will replace the LibDems as the 3rd party.
Don
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don4l said:
The LibDems are down from 23% at the last election to 9% now.
There isn't a hope in hell that they will help form another coalition until their current behaviour fades from public memory.
It is beginning to look like UKIP, assisted by the current situation in the Eurozone, will replace the LibDems as the 3rd party.
Don
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The lib Dem could increase their share of the vote and yet not be in a coalition - equally, they could lose votes and seats and still end up in government. My view is that the next election produce a fairly close result one way or the other and th best that either Tory or labour can hope for is a small majority. There will be no landslide.There isn't a hope in hell that they will help form another coalition until their current behaviour fades from public memory.
It is beginning to look like UKIP, assisted by the current situation in the Eurozone, will replace the LibDems as the 3rd party.
Don
--
crankedup said:
nelly1 said:
Until Labour gets back into power?
Going on 'popular opinion' (polls), not long then
God help us all!
Labour have no chance of getting back into office, at least not this time around. Its a way off before General Election but I have a hunch it will be another Con/Lib-Dem Coalition. So many votes will go the way of minor Parties that again no overall winner.Going on 'popular opinion' (polls), not long then
God help us all!
The Lib Dem vote will collapse, dispersed evenly between Labour and Tory, and we'll be left with a minority Tory government, as they won't go in to a coalition with Labour. There won't be enough Lib Dem seats to form a majority coalition with the Tories. Sadly, in my book, as I'm a Lib Dem supporter who tends towrds the Tories if pushed. Still, so long as Labour stay out of power, it won't be too bad.
rover 623gsi said:
The lib Dem could increase their share of the vote and yet not be in a coalition - equally, they could lose votes and seats and still end up in government. My view is that the next election produce a fairly close result one way or the other and th best that either Tory or labour can hope for is a small majority. There will be no landslide.
I agree with all of that.My point is that LibDems have not benefitted from the publicity that accompanies their role as a coalition partner.
Before the last election I saw them as "nice guys". Inneffectual, a bit lefty, but fundamentally decent.
I now see them as a self-serving bunch of hypocritical bunch of lying expense fiddlers.
Among Conservative and Labour MP's you will find some (not many) people who believe that they are fighting for the greater good. I cannot see any LibDem MP whose integrity I trust.
Don
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don4l said:
crankedup said:
Labour have no chance of getting back into office, at least not this time around. Its a way off before General Election but I have a hunch it will be another Con/Lib-Dem Coalition. So many votes will go the way of minor Parties that again no overall winner.
The LibDems are down from 23% at the last election to 9% now.There isn't a hope in hell that they will help form another coalition until their current behaviour fades from public memory.
It is beginning to look like UKIP, assisted by the current situation in the Eurozone, will replace the LibDems as the 3rd party.
Don
--
crankedup said:
Can't see UKIP gathering much momentum in the three years to the next General Election. Its only the relative few that take an interest in politics that has a notion of who they are and what they stand for. One leader with plenty of zazz, and I like his style. Your comments do make sense but I don't see that they are ready to take Office just yet.
UKIP could make effective coalition partners to the Tories. Might even get some decent policies and strong leadership rather than all this compromised crap. Nigel is a much better choice for Deputy PM than Nick.I am more wondering when it will actually start, I keep hearing everyone banging on about austerity and how tough it is etc etc, as yet though I have seen almost zero evidence of this. From a personal view point I have not been impacted in the slightest, in fact I am doing very well thank you. Looking around though I can see no slow down in new cars on the road, people booking fancy holidays and flat screen tellies and iPhones still seem to flying off the shelf.
If someone can point me to the hardship we are supposed to be feeling I would be most grateful, otherwise it seems to me that we spend a lot of time reading/moaning about it and very little actually experiencing it. I came out through the 70's crisis as a kid and lived my teenage years in the early eighties. Both of these occasions where far far worse than anything I am seeing now, in fact there is just no comparison.
If someone can point me to the hardship we are supposed to be feeling I would be most grateful, otherwise it seems to me that we spend a lot of time reading/moaning about it and very little actually experiencing it. I came out through the 70's crisis as a kid and lived my teenage years in the early eighties. Both of these occasions where far far worse than anything I am seeing now, in fact there is just no comparison.
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