Ed Miliband calls for tightening on Immigration

[martin84]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I never said it was any different, I thought the thread was about Miliband.

Perhaps but Miliband is such a dull soul we wont reach a third page if we stick purely to him.

[Mermaid]

0a said:

Here is the data 2001-2010 from the Guardian data blog on immigration. You can get the data at the bottom and cut it how you like yourself:

Row Labels Sum of Immigrants from, thousands
India 833
Australia 715
Poland 634
USA 505
China 463
South Africa 413
Germany 407
Pakistan 400
France 375
Spain 254
New Zealand 226
Philippines 222
Nigeria 120
Bangladesh 97
Japan 77
Canada 65
Netherlands 64
Italy 62
Republic of Ireland 61
Hong Kong 57
Malaysia 49
Zimbabwe 15

Edited by 0a on Friday 22 June 11:35

No Greeks on that list, but 2011/12 & onwards will probably be different.

I do wonder how the Government would deal with a million Greeks coming here.

[bobbylondonuk]

KENZ said:

I have an African friend who studied in the UK. Her family payed her uni fees and provided money for living. Studied for 4 Years at a good uni. She's now working in UK, pays her visa annually and is entitled to no benefits. These are the people we want to attract.
You couldn't meet a nicer person too.

It's the EU imigrants that's causing a drain on our resources.As most are on low wages, pay very little tax and are entitled to all the benefits.

Edited by KENZ on Friday 22 June 13:03

I was an Indian student who paid 3 times what the EU student paid. Found work, got sponsored a work permit, worked hard and qualified to attain citizenship in the UK. Had access to zero benefits. Proud British citizen after nearly 10 years of hard work and paying taxes.

IMO....problem is not people coming here on visas...they have criteria to be met and it is not easy to settle here. Problem is:
1. UK settled people bringing in spouses who do not integrate into society quickly.
2. People who bring in spouses not having the requirement to be financially responsible and giving them benefit access straight away.
3. Settlement visa for spouses from abroad after just 2 years together encouraging fraud.
4. EU free flow of people with access to benefits.
5. Low skilled labour being provided by EU nationalities and foreign students at lower than minimum wage. (which I think should be scrapped to reduce cost of production in UK)
6. Employers not actively encouraged to give 1st preference to British citizens.

The above causes an increase in population that is more dependant on the benefits, reduces wages in the low skilled area, slow integration leading to segregated communities of immigrants.

[Piersman2]

I'd like to know how it is that the main resources involved in IT work seem to be asian, mainly Indian; shipped over by consultancy firms as part of outsourcing agreements.

How come these jobs are not being made available to indigenous resources? Where are the controls to make sure that these inbound 'skills' are not available in the UK already?

Already we are forming a generation of intelligent young people who are not even being given a chance to get into the workplace whilst the big firms import cheap labour from asia.

The knowledge and experience and training is being passed onto these overseas resources, who then take it back to asia after a year or two.

We are shooting ourselves in the foot here through lazy, accountant driven company management which is allowing the intelectual property of the UK to be passed to asia for free.

Once that IP is gone, it's gone. And the generations following will not easily re-discover it.

[martin84]

Piersman2 said:

I'd like to know how it is that the main resources involved in IT work seem to be asian, mainly Indian; shipped over by consultancy firms as part of outsourcing agreements.

How come these jobs are not being made available to indigenous resources? Where are the controls to make sure that these inbound 'skills' are not available in the UK already?

Cheaper. Why do you think BT now stands for Bengali Telecom?

[Pints]

Mermaid said:

No Greeks on that list, but 2011/12 & onwards will probably be different.

I do wonder how the Government would deal with a million Greeks coming here.

Free plates.

[bobbylondonuk]

Piersman2 said:

I'd like to know how it is that the main resources involved in IT work seem to be asian, mainly Indian; shipped over by consultancy firms as part of outsourcing agreements.

How come these jobs are not being made available to indigenous resources? Where are the controls to make sure that these inbound 'skills' are not available in the UK already?

Already we are forming a generation of intelligent young people who are not even being given a chance to get into the workplace whilst the big firms import cheap labour from asia.

The knowledge and experience and training is being passed onto these overseas resources, who then take it back to asia after a year or two.

We are shooting ourselves in the foot here through lazy, accountant driven company management which is allowing the intelectual property of the UK to be passed to asia for free.

Once that IP is gone, it's gone. And the generations following will not easily re-discover it.

Very simple.

Companies that have international offices are allowed to bring in workers from other branches on 'inter company deputation' work permit.

These companies can apply for a special dispensation from HMRC if they require large number of people to come here for limited time periods of up to 2 years. This dispensation allows the company to pay these workers a tax free allowance here and their normal taxable salary in their original location of employment.

Net result is lower cost than hiring a local resource. This scheme was originally introduced when there was an IT skills shortage here and never closed. So Indian IT companies keep recycling their indian workers on 12-18 month stints.

[Camoradi]

Piersman2 said:

I'd like to know how it is that the main resources involved in IT work seem to be asian, mainly Indian; shipped over by consultancy firms as part of outsourcing agreements.

How come these jobs are not being made available to indigenous resources? Where are the controls to make sure that these inbound 'skills' are not available in the UK already?

IT education in the UK switched from programming skills to operating MS Excel and Powerpoint about a decade ago, hence there are few new entrants from UK. There is plenty of work for skilled programmers (luckily for me) at the moment.

A word on IT outsourcing. A company I worked for was forced by the parent company to offshore a project in the subcontinent and it cost more than doing it in the UK, by the time all the additional management was taken into account. The quality of work wasn't great either. One spec. said "display a suitable error message", so they coded a popup saying "a suitable error message"

[Caulkhead]

bobbylondonuk said:

KENZ said:

I have an African friend who studied in the UK. Her family payed her uni fees and provided money for living. Studied for 4 Years at a good uni. She's now working in UK, pays her visa annually and is entitled to no benefits. These are the people we want to attract.
You couldn't meet a nicer person too.

It's the EU imigrants that's causing a drain on our resources.As most are on low wages, pay very little tax and are entitled to all the benefits.

Edited by KENZ on Friday 22 June 13:03

I was an Indian student who paid 3 times what the EU student paid. Found work, got sponsored a work permit, worked hard and qualified to attain citizenship in the UK. Had access to zero benefits. Proud British citizen after nearly 10 years of hard work and paying taxes.

IMO....problem is not people coming here on visas...they have criteria to be met and it is not easy to settle here. Problem is:
1. UK settled people bringing in spouses who do not integrate into society quickly.
2. People who bring in spouses not having the requirement to be financially responsible and giving them benefit access straight away.
3. Settlement visa for spouses from abroad after just 2 years together encouraging fraud.
4. EU free flow of people with access to benefits.
5. Low skilled labour being provided by EU nationalities and foreign students at lower than minimum wage. (which I think should be scrapped to reduce cost of production in UK)
6. Employers not actively encouraged to give 1st preference to British citizens.

The above causes an increase in population that is more dependant on the benefits, reduces wages in the low skilled area, slow integration leading to segregated communities of immigrants.

Well said. We need immigrants but we also need to choose the immigrants we need.

[martin84]

How do we 'encourage' employers to give first preference to UK citizens without essentially engineering protectionism? The last time I looked the Tory party was against protectionism.

[turbobloke]

martin84 said:

How do we 'encourage' employers to give first preference to UK citizens without essentially engineering protectionism? The last time I looked the Tory party was against protectionism.

Same here apparently

[martin84]

turbobloke said:

Same here apparently

Nice to see a well balanced article

[turbobloke]

martin84 said:

turbobloke said:

Same here apparently

Nice to see a well balanced article

Should be used to it...The Guardian, The Independent, The Daily Mirror...they're full of it

[martin84]

turbobloke said:

Should be used to it...The Guardian, The Independent, The Daily Mirror...they're full of it

But the article writer is pretending this is something new. Even the last Bush Administration proposed a Guest Worker Program, much like many administrations in the past. There are a lot of illegal workers in the US, many of them do very low paid work others don't want to do. This is fact. We already know this. The irony with the Obama bashing is the Republicans are very much against protectionism as well, despite the holier than thou rhetoric and constant soundbite quoting of their famous constitution.

[bobbylondonuk]

martin84 said:

How do we 'encourage' employers to give first preference to UK citizens without essentially engineering protectionism? The last time I looked the Tory party was against protectionism.

Economic protectionism in a global economy is wrong and it is not going to be successful in the long run. Encouragement to prefer our own citizens over foreign nationalities is not protectionism IMO. We should look after our people first is what it means. Other nations should look after theirs.

IME it will balance out...you can interview everyone but if you think you find 2 top candidates you want to offer a job to...offer it to the British first! The best candidate may not be British at all and you might offer it to a foreign national as well!

At the last part of the race...there is nothing wrong in supporting our own over the line! We dont need legislation for it...just an informal attitude.

[unrepentant]

Marf said:

unrepentant said:

Where's Poland on that list?

Number 3 in the list...

That's alzheimers for you...

[Northern Munkee]

I'm assuming miliband is addressing the BNP today, given he tailors any speech to whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear. He is worst kind of opportunist, ie blatantly not very good at hiding it!

The cheek of the wobbly gobbed 6th former is incredible, he was in government was he not, I think he's hoping that enough time has passed that disassociate himself, or rather enough of the electorate no longer associate him with

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-ord...

I hope ( as I'm not convinced, about the degree of stupidity amongst) the electorate are ever taken in again.

Tripped over several articles finding that link, where tits like Woollas dismissed accusations by various parties, and independent think tanks, as just Tory scaremongering. Farage tweeted this morning "miliband admits ukip were right all along".

So the neather quotes should preface all reporting of miliband on immigration.

Why can we not get Blair&brown in a criminal court for something!!!!? WMD, open door immigration, bank deregulation!

[martin84]

Well the bank deregulation was first agreed under the Tories, so Brown's got a way out on that one.

[Mojocvh]

martin84 said:

Well the bank deregulation was first agreed under the Tories, so Brown's got a way out on that one.

...Kevlar!....

[turbobloke]

History is bunk, the inadequate tripartite regulatory system wasn't devised by the Tories as it had G Clown's hoofprints all over it - but what's that got to do with immigration?