Chemotherapy - cancer? You're fit.

[Blue62]

johnfm said:

Yes, seriously.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.

If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?

I think you missed the point just there, but you original response sums you up perfectly.

[johnfm]

Pesty said:

johnfm said:

Boo hoo.

Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.

seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.

If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?

[stackmonkey]

johnfm said:

Yes, seriously.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.

If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?

The point, which you have obviously missed unless you are trolling, is that many people who are incapable of doing any jobs, are being told that they are fit due to an inadequate testing system and are unfairly losing that safety net as a consequence.

[Blue62]

stackmonkey said:

The point, which you have obviously missed unless you are trolling, is that many people who are incapable of doing any jobs, are being told that they are fit due to an inadequate testing system and are unfairly losing that safety net as a consequence.

You're wasting your time, this won't develop into a reasoned discussion, I still don't know how he managed to escape from that bunker.

[Jasandjules]

johnfm said:

Yes, seriously.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.

If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?

And if you have a heart attack and die two weeks after being told you are fit to work?!?!

[Pesty]

johnfm said:

Pesty said:

johnfm said:

Boo hoo.

Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.

seriously?

Yes, seriously.

Welfare is a safety net, not a hammock.

If you are fit to do certain jobs, why shouldn't you at least have to try?

Even the guy who died 2 weeks later?

[Oakey]

How can anyone say he wouldn't have died two weeks later had he been sat at home on his arse instead?

[Adrian W]

If you are being treated for cancer and have little idea what the outcome will be, work is not at the top of your priority list.

[Pesty]

He probably will have done. the point being he obviously wasn't fit for work.

Added stress may well have helped him on his way.

All the frauds out there need sorting thats for sure. line them up and shoot the fkers, fine by me.

It does seem though that quite a few genuine cases are being given a lot of agro because for years the same tts in the same areas have been taking the piss for far, far too long..

[league67]

Pesty said:

johnfm said:

Boo hoo.

Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.

seriously?

Don't think so. Just a desperado wanna-be hard man over the interweb. johnfm, that comment was beyond contempt. If you actually do
think that and it's not just mindless bravado, you should be shot. Preferably, imho, before you contaminate genetic pool.

[Oakey]

I think davepoth hit the nail on the head earlier. If you're looking to cheat the system you will do your homework and know the correct responses to ensure the result you want, if you're naive and honest you'll play things down and risk not being assessed correctly.

Those in genuine need get shafted and those on the fiddle win.

[davepoth]

Pesty said:

Even the guy who died 2 weeks later?

All we know was that he was not sufficiently ill to be hospitalised, he wasn't terminally ill, and was assessed as being capable of doing some work. If his doctors thought he was in imminent risk of death he would never have been in that situation.

[Jasandjules]

Pesty said:

It does seem though that quite a few genuine cases are being given a lot of agro because for years the same tts in the same areas have been taking the piss for far, far too long..

Indeed. And guess what, those who are really ill can't cope with the stress/hassle of fighting for it.

[Gargamel]

As of May 2011 2.6m people were claiming Incapacity benefit or 8.5% of the adult working population, at a cost of £12.5bn annually - presumably not including their other benefits too.


I am trying to find some similar numbers from say (thinking randomly) 1997

[Gargamel]

Here we go 1997 - a good year, total cost £3.5bn

From 1979 to 1997 Incapacity Benefits as a proportion of the Welfare Bill rose from 16% to 27%

You think with the advances in Medical Treatment the trend would be the other way .......

[BruceV8]

crankedup said:

Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.

I used to have two one armed labourers working for me. And it was the same arm. If you wanted them to carry a heavy box between them, one of them would walk backwards. To help matters, they recruited another bloke, who also had one arm.

They were MOD civilians working in a military munitions processing area. If they could hump and dump boxes of artillery shells all day long, I dare say your example could work a till.

[davepoth]

Gargamel said:

Here we go 1997 - a good year, total cost £3.5bn

From 1979 to 1997 Incapacity Benefits as a proportion of the Welfare Bill rose from 16% to 27%

You think with the advances in Medical Treatment the trend would be the other way .......

But then if you look at some of the stuff people are claiming incapacity benefit for, you'll understand.

Apologies for the DM link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180833/Of...

Ten people have been "on the sick" for more than a decade due to acne, 670 for being obese, 1,020 for headaches (distinct from migraines in the figures), 30 for fractured forearms, 20 for conjunctivitis, and 1,300 for diarrhoea or gastroenteritis.

140,000 people are on IB for depressive episodes. I'm not denying that it's an illness, but one of the best treatments, as any doctor will tell you, is to not be sat in the house all day with time to think.

[whoami]

davepoth said:

Apologies for the DM link.

I really wish people would stop with this nonsense.

The link is either good enough to support whatever is being posted, or it's not.

[johnfm]

league67 said:

Pesty said:

johnfm said:

Boo hoo.

Why don't you dip into your savings and pay these people to sit at home if it so upsetting.

seriously?

Don't think so. Just a desperado wanna-be hard man over the interweb. johnfm, that comment was beyond contempt. If you actually do
think that and it's not just mindless bravado, you should be shot. Preferably, imho, before you contaminate genetic pool.

Heh. I assume you were Captain of your school debating team.

The robust testing and appeals procedure should ( though may not necessarily) weed out people who have chosen sickness benefit as a lifestyle choice.

The question is 'what exactly is too sick to work'?

Quite clearly, some jobs (if they are available) could be done by people with a variety of long term illnesses.

Some long term illnesses may not make work possible. These people are the ones who need welfare support. As with the NHS and most other forms of welfare, the scope creep has become so wide that there is too little help available to genuine claimants.

As for karma, that is what health insurance is for.

[Caulkhead]

BruceV8 said:

crankedup said:

Apparently a one armed person is fit to hold down a checkout assistants job.

I used to have two one armed labourers working for me. And it was the same arm. If you wanted them to carry a heavy box between them, one of them would walk backwards. To help matters, they recruited another bloke, who also had one arm.

They were MOD civilians working in a military munitions processing area. If they could hump and dump boxes of artillery shells all day long, I dare say your example could work a till.

Can't for the life of me see why having one arm would stop you working. You can still drive with one arm so working shouldn't be impossible, the majority of deaf and blind people manage it. I've got a mangled right leg following an accident, half an inch shorter than the other, radial wear at the hip, trapped sciatic nerve, strong pins and needles 24/7 in the foot and no feeling down the thigh. I often have trouble walking and intense pain but it doesn't stop me earning my own keep.