China opens 11,000km of Motorway

[jbi]

Caulkhead said:

jbi said:

10 Pence Short said:

Statistics in this case are misleading. The UK is largely developed as a nation, as is our infrastructure. China is not, so is starting from a much lower base.

Just to address this point... the UK I would argue has a very undeveloped motorway network... in fact it's one of the lowest in Europe per capita.



Km of motorway, per million inhabitants, 1996 and 2010

Edited by jbi on Tuesday 1st January 10:44

You really don't understand statistics do you?

care to elaborate?

[turbobloke]

There are grounds for an OLO (Outer London Orbital) motorway and for building all the approved dual carriageways that were subsequently shelved by Presclot. Nothing much will happen though, sadly.

[turbobloke]

Build quality over here will at least be high enough should anything get done.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/chi...

[10 Pence Short]

turbobloke said:

There are grounds for an OLO (Outer London Orbital) motorway and for building all the approved dual carriageways that were subsequently shelved by Presclot. Nothing much will happen though, sadly.

I would rather spending went properly towards ways of getting people out of cars, where appropriate. Rather than build new roads, I'd rather see us break EU law and spend money subsidising public transport, including the railways.

Too many of our journeys in this country are car and road reliant.

[jbi]

10 Pence Short said:

Does the UK need to spend capital on general motorway infrastructure growth just to boost the economy- no.

I believe he argument is yes... and it seems the government agree with me...

http://www.publicserviceeurope.com/article/1705/uk...

10 Pence Short said:

Does the UK need to spend capital on general motorway infrastructure growth to remove a bottleneck from from growth of the economy- no.

Would you not agree our roads are choked beyond capacity?

Look at the state of the A1 in the north for example.

10 Pence Short said:

Existing physical bottlenecks should be improved to provide local relief, but I don't believe there's any traction in the country as a whole benefiting from a wholesale program of road building.

Jobs during construction and the long term benefits improved transport links bring to an area. Look at the north south divide in both infrastructure, investment and employment levels.

[Hackney]

10 Pence Short said:

I would rather spending went properly towards ways of getting people out of cars, where appropriate. Rather than build new roads, I'd rather see us break EU law and spend money subsidising public transport, including the railways.

Too many of our journeys in this country are car and road reliant.

This

[10 Pence Short]

jbi said:

Would you not agree our roads are choked beyond capacity?

Look at the state of the A1 in the north for example.

The A1 between Peterborough and Doncaster has had all the roundabouts removed and is like a ghost town most of the time. The link between the M1/A1M at Leeds removed the slug of traffic joining the A1 from the M18 northbound some years ago. The stretch from the M1 all the way to Bedale is now 3 lane carriageway and generally free flowing. The only sections of the A1 that could do with improvement are around Gateshead at Team Valley and to dual the route to Edinburgh.

[Great Pretender]

jbi said:

hornetrider said:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/chi...

Shall I go on?

i'm sure the entire network is just waiting to collapse

Most accident's are caused by overloaded trucks.

The Chinese are known to run their articulated trucks with up to 100,000kg on them and when multiple overloaded trucks enter the same section of road... usually problems occur.

Well no. In this case it was heavy rain which washed the dodgy foundations away.

[jbi]

Hackney said:

10 Pence Short said:

I would rather spending went properly towards ways of getting people out of cars, where appropriate. Rather than build new roads, I'd rather see us break EU law and spend money subsidising public transport, including the railways.

Too many of our journeys in this country are car and road reliant.

This

Fine for those who live in the city... but many of us don't

Railways are also money pit's... they cost a fortune of taxpayer's money to build and never recoup the costs during operation, which is fine if you are a cash rich nation like China... but not a heavily indebted nation like ours.

[jbi]

10 Pence Short said:

jbi said:

Would you not agree our roads are choked beyond capacity?

Look at the state of the A1 in the north for example.

The A1 between Peterborough and Doncaster has had all the roundabouts removed and is like a ghost town most of the time. The link between the M1/A1M at Leeds removed the slug of traffic joining the A1 from the M18 northbound some years ago. The stretch from the M1 all the way to Bedale is now 3 lane carriageway and generally free flowing. The only sections of the A1 that could do with improvement are around Gateshead at Team Valley and to dual the route to Edinburgh.

I think it does without saying the A1 needs to be upgraded to motorway the complete distance between London and Edinburgh.

I must admit I have never encountered this "ghost town" you talk of. The traffic is certainly better since they removed those roundabouts and with sufficient upgrades the rest of the network could be suitably "smooth" as well.

Dual carriageway on it's own is not enough, it's far too dangerous. You need grade separated junctions.

[10 Pence Short]

jbi said:

Fine for those who live in the city... but many of us don't

Railways are also money pit's... they cost a fortune of taxpayer's money to build and never recoup the costs during operation, which is fine if you are a cash rich nation like China... but not a heavily indebted nation like ours.

I don't understand.

We never get the money back from railway investment.

Yet we would from building roads.

What is it about road building that gets our money back that cannot happen with investing in rail?

[jbi]

10 Pence Short said:

jbi said:

Fine for those who live in the city... but many of us don't

Railways are also money pit's... they cost a fortune of taxpayer's money to build and never recoup the costs during operation, which is fine if you are a cash rich nation like China... but not a heavily indebted nation like ours.

I don't understand.

We never get the money back from railway investment.

Yet we would from building roads.

What is it about road building that gets our money back that cannot happen with investing in rail?

Roads are cheaper to build and maintain, they are more efficient, they actually generate revenue through fuel taxes and they enable faster transportation of goods to a wider variety of destinations.

The only way rail can be profitable is through freight, but this is impossible due to the quantity, frequency and priority of passenger rail in the UK.

[speedy_thrills]

It's all so good having motorways in the Europe and China but without a motorway connection we're hardly going to take up caravan holidaying in China any time soon are we?

[10 Pence Short]

So Virgin are so desperate for the rail franchise because they don't make money providing it?

Give up whilst you're behind.

[Fittster]

"China has added $14 trillion in extra credit since 2009, equal to the entire US banking system. It is trouble waiting to happen."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambrose...

[jbi]

10 Pence Short said:

So Virgin are so desperate for the rail franchise because they don't make money providing it?

Give up whilst you're behind.

Virgin don't have to pay for the thing in the first place... not to mention they are receiving a taxpayer subsidy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/oct/11/railway-t...

[Mandat]

hornetrider said:

And I'm guessing that 11000kms include such quality as this?

That boat has now sailed, metaphorically speaking.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/w...

[Pothole]

10 Pence Short said:

Give up whilst you're behind.

This, in spades. (and try and finds the last time I agreed with 10PS to show what a groundbreaking post this really is!!) OP, you're an ill-informed muppet.

[jbi]

speedy_thrills said:

It's all so good having motorways in the Europe and China but without a motorway connection we're hardly going to take up caravan holidaying in China any time soon are we?

They are fixing that as we speak

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road#Re-establis...

[jbi]

Pothole said:

10 Pence Short said:

Give up whilst you're behind.

This, in spades. (and try and finds the last time I agreed with 10PS to show what a groundbreaking post this really is!!) OP, you're an ill-informed muppet.

Thanks for the ad hominem... care to back that up please.