Burglary at remote Peak District farm, murder arrest
Discussion
BrettMRC said:
If you are alone, and 4 people are attempting to break in then a firearm is probably the only hope you have of coming out on top.
The question will be where and how it was kept to allow the homeowner to access it in what was probably a fast moving situation.
Don’t take silly… all any home needs is a cuddly guard dog who was originally bred to take on bears as a livestock guardian. I personally would go for something a bit more timid if it’s your first dog though. The question will be where and how it was kept to allow the homeowner to access it in what was probably a fast moving situation.
Slightly OT but a former colleague of mine is a white farmer in Africa.
Apparently a pack of semi-feral Rhodesian Ridgebacks is very effective. He reckoned they were a one stop shop solution as a deterrent, alarm & ultimately stopping force for anyone daft / brave enough to try.
Maybe a bit extreme for the rural UK…
…Postman may struggle.
Apparently a pack of semi-feral Rhodesian Ridgebacks is very effective. He reckoned they were a one stop shop solution as a deterrent, alarm & ultimately stopping force for anyone daft / brave enough to try.
Maybe a bit extreme for the rural UK…
…Postman may struggle.
milkround said:
BrettMRC said:
If you are alone, and 4 people are attempting to break in then a firearm is probably the only hope you have of coming out on top.
The question will be where and how it was kept to allow the homeowner to access it in what was probably a fast moving situation.
Don’t take silly… all any home needs is a cuddly guard dog who was originally bred to take on bears as a livestock guardian. I personally would go for something a bit more timid if it’s your first dog though. The question will be where and how it was kept to allow the homeowner to access it in what was probably a fast moving situation.
king up another thread with your bullst?Getragdogleg said:
How the hell is it murder if the bds were trespassing and trying to burgle ?
Tons of case law exists regarding situations like this. It all hinges on "reasonable force" and depends very much on the circumstances of the case. Shooting somebody dead just because they are on your property , on its own, is not considered "reasonable force" in English Law.ds were trespassing and trying to burgle ?However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.
Eric Mc said:
Tons of case law exists regarding situations like this. It all hinges on "reasonable force" and depends very much on the circumstances of the case. Shooting somebody dead just because they are on your property , on its own, is not considered "reasonable force" in English Law.
However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.
You don't need to prove that you were in clear danger, but to satisfy the police/cps that you believed you were.However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.
"Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an
arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgments over the
level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you
honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would
be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the
case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more
force you can lawfully use in self-defence."
from https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documen...
Camoradi said:
Eric Mc said:
Tons of case law exists regarding situations like this. It all hinges on "reasonable force" and depends very much on the circumstances of the case. Shooting somebody dead just because they are on your property , on its own, is not considered "reasonable force" in English Law.
However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.
You don't need to prove that you were in clear danger, but to satisfy the police/cps that you believed you were.However, if the property owner can prove they were in clear danger to life and limb, then it might be seen as "reasonable force", for example, if the trespasser was charging at them with a large knife or was carrying a gun.
"Anyone can use reasonable force to protect themselves or others, or to carry out an
arrest or to prevent crime. You are not expected to make fine judgments over the
level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you
honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would
be the strongest evidence of you acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the
case if you use something to hand as a weapon.
As a general rule, the more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more
force you can lawfully use in self-defence."
from https://www.cps.gov.uk/sites/default/files/documen...
The sentence is life imprisonment
If confronted by said burglars then the level of force to defend oneself reasonably would be at a higher level
Using lethal force to defend against the use of or threat of lethal force could well be quite reasonable
Assuming all is how it seems, fk em, they break the sanctity of your home trying to take your stuff, its an occupational hazard. Its like a not funny version of an episode of "Brassic".
For every burglar that gets offed, which is very infrequent, there are thousands of people who are terrified, inconvenienced and out of pocket, plus all the knock ons, I know my wife would really struggle if we were burgled, hence why I am very conscious of home security.
My mother in law lives rurally, had someone down the drive the other day taking photos ffs. Not saying get like America where people seem to be looking for an opportunity to kill someone but people need to be protected and if you are committing a crime, that should be forfeited.
Wonder if there have any been some where they get killed whilst burgling somewhere and the bodies get disposed of ? Nobody knows where they are or why, all that land, pigs, bonfires, lime pits, make a good book that.
k em, they break the sanctity of your home trying to take your stuff, its an occupational hazard. Its like a not funny version of an episode of "Brassic".For every burglar that gets offed, which is very infrequent, there are thousands of people who are terrified, inconvenienced and out of pocket, plus all the knock ons, I know my wife would really struggle if we were burgled, hence why I am very conscious of home security.
My mother in law lives rurally, had someone down the drive the other day taking photos ffs. Not saying get like America where people seem to be looking for an opportunity to kill someone but people need to be protected and if you are committing a crime, that should be forfeited.
Wonder if there have any been some where they get killed whilst burgling somewhere and the bodies get disposed of ? Nobody knows where they are or why, all that land, pigs, bonfires, lime pits, make a good book that.
ninepoint2 said:
If it was a "burglary that went wrong" then they deserve what they got, play stupid games win stupid prizes springs to mind, the law is flawed if this farmer is done for murder IMHO if his gun is legally held (unlike Tony Martin) should be given an award for saving tax payers a fortune to keep these scrotes in prison, again in IMHO
I agree but that’s never going to happen.Edited by ninepoint2 on Wednesday 1st May 22:39
I'm not really sure I want to go down any paths championed by the U.S. in regards to protecting ones home.
Whilst I'm always happy to see a promising young footballing lad and his mates die after their car flips at speed whilst being chased by the police, I'd not welcome killing anyone entering your house, just because you can.
After a while, it'll only end up encouraging situations like this:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-driver-killed-sc...
That said, it's a pity he didn't kill them all and bury them deep so that none of us had to get upset about it, I am reasonably confident their input into the human race was minimal, with the exception of creating more of the same.
Sad case all around, there's no object worth protecting enough, that it buggers up the rest of your life!
Whilst I'm always happy to see a promising young footballing lad and his mates die after their car flips at speed whilst being chased by the police, I'd not welcome killing anyone entering your house, just because you can.
After a while, it'll only end up encouraging situations like this:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uber-driver-killed-sc...
That said, it's a pity he didn't kill them all and bury them deep so that none of us had to get upset about it, I am reasonably confident their input into the human race was minimal, with the exception of creating more of the same.
Sad case all around, there's no object worth protecting enough, that it buggers up the rest of your life!
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