First Iceland, now Ireland?

[Fittster]

Uncle Fester said:

The IMF has to get its money from somewhere. It has some, and then it has legally binding agreements with governments that they will come up with some money if the IMF asks them for it. This is known as ‘Special Drawing Rights’ (SDR).

Err, can't they just flog some of their gold reserves?

[Eric Mc]

Puggit said:

I was in Ireland in December - the tales of public sector waste and corruption put Gordon Clown and his pals in to the shade.

It's not so much the waste but the corruption that has gone on - at very senior levels. Since the mid 1990s Ireland has held a whole raft of tribunals to look into corruption and tax fraud - some of it perpetrated by the banks (the famous DIRT Tribunal) and some by politicians - including the previous Prime Minister, Bertie Ahern.

[brisel]

Fittster said:

Err, can't they just flog some of their gold reserves?

Would they be the ones Gordon Brown sold at the bottom of the market a few years ago (and the move leaked out beforehand, causing speculators to short it & push it even lower)?

[Fittster]

Hmmm, we seemed to have moved on from Banks to Countries going broke!!

Ireland:

"Ireland's entire banking system may have to be nationalised after the country's six-member financial index fell the most since 1993, according to a leading economist."#

Spain:

"Standard & Poor's has stripped Spain of its coveted AAA status in the first such move against a top-rated country since the global crisis began, reflecting the deep damage suffered by Spanish public finances as the debt bubble bursts."

GB:

"UK bonds tumbled today as Gordon Brown's second bank bail-out sparked fears that Government borrowing will balloon to a new record."

[Welshbeef]

At what point do countries get kicked out of the Euro?
Clearly they cannot have debt above a set level when joining but when joined they are just rules what if the UK were in now and had released the save the banks 2nd attempt??? They couldnt.

[Fittster]

The tiger looks a bit sick:

"FEARS are mounting that Ireland could default on its soaring national debt pile, amid continuing worries about its troubled banking sector.

The cost of buying insurance against Irish government bonds rose to record highs on Friday, having almost tripled in a week. Debt-market investors now rank Ireland as the most troubled economy in Europe.

Pledges made by Ireland to support its banking sector amount to 220% of the country’s annual economic output. The total loans held in Irish banks are more than 11 times the size of the economy."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/eco...

[V8A*ndy]

Fittster said:

The tiger looks a bit sick:

"FEARS are mounting that Ireland could default on its soaring national debt pile, amid continuing worries about its troubled banking sector.

The cost of buying insurance against Irish government bonds rose to record highs on Friday, having almost tripled in a week. Debt-market investors now rank Ireland as the most troubled economy in Europe.

Pledges made by Ireland to support its banking sector amount to 220% of the country’s annual economic output. The total loans held in Irish banks are more than 11 times the size of the economy."

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/eco...

They are losing a lot of money to the North as well. A local major shopping complex not far from me is filled now at the weekend with ROI reg cars. All of the border towns are reporting record sales due to the amount of people coming over the border with their strong Euro.

[PJ S]

Welshbeef said:

At what point do countries get kicked out of the Euro?
Clearly they cannot have debt above a set level when joining but when joined they are just rules what if the UK were in now and had released the save the banks 2nd attempt??? They couldnt.

What?
Do you want another go at saying that, only whilst sobber this time!?

[HappyGoLucky]

JRM said:

Potatos? Oh no that's wrong...

You're right, it's wrong.... It's potatoEs!

[speedy_thrills]

HappyGoLucky said:

JRM said:

Potatos? Oh no that's wrong...

You're right, it's wrong.... It's potatoEs!

Peat (turf), Agricultural goods, Booze...ummm...Waterford crystal?

I think Dell and Roche used to operate out of the Shannon free zone or whatever it is/was called.

Mostly service industries TBH.

[Eric Mc]

Ireland missed out to a large extent on the industrial revolution - with the exceptoipn of the northern counties. Traditionally, its main business sector was agriculture. It still makes up a large element of its economy - larger than financial services.

Regarding currency, Ireland was part of the UK until 1921 so, up until then, it used Sterling. With the onset of independence for the Free State in 1921, it created its own currency which remained pegged to Sterling until 1979 when it finally broke away. From 1979 the unit of currency officially became known as the Punt (which is Gaelic for Pound).

[Fittster]

"German Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck said on Monday euro zone countries would have to pull together if one of them faced a "serious situation," adding that Ireland was in a "difficult situation."

It was the first time Germany, the euro zone's biggest economy, directly mentioned helping Ireland, which has seen its credit rating questioned and put on negative outlook at some agencies on worries of a deepening recession."

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN16...

[Goughie]

Fittster said:

Uncle Fester said:

The IMF has to get its money from somewhere. It has some, and then it has legally binding agreements with governments that they will come up with some money if the IMF asks them for it. This is known as ‘Special Drawing Rights’ (SDR).

Err, can't they just flog some of their gold reserves?

Selling the UK gold reserves wouldn't do it - they're now relatively insignificant given the scale of this situation. And when you take into account all traded options, ETF's, etc there's not enough physical metal to support the market if it were all to be called. Don't you just love the markets!!

[SMKurt]

This thread failed. I was expecting to read a headline about a new shop called Ireland

[Fittster]

Ireland has had its sovereign credit rating cut to ’AA+’ from the previous top ranked ’AAA’ by Standard and Poor’s as the global slump continues to ravage the country’s finances.

The former ‘Celtic Tiger’ economy is the second eurozone country after Spain in January to lose its top ranking since the onslaught of the crisis.

S&P said Ireland’s rating outlook was “Negative,” meaning it could be lowered again.“The downgrade reflects our view that the deterioration of Ireland’s public finances will likely require a number of years of sustained effort to repair, on a scale greater than factored into the government’s current plans,” S&P said.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/eco...

It's getting closer.

[Dargie]

Hmmm.....it is all starting to come out in the wash as they say. An accountant friend of mine told me earlier in the year that the PIIGS would drag the Euro zone down and not to panic too much, the PIIGS being, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain. Ireland looks like it'll be first. My money was on Italy turning round one day and just dropping into polite conversation "oh yeah, we ran out of money yesterday, nothing to worry about though. So how are things with you?"

[Eric Mc]

s2art said:

Puggit said:

I was in Ireland in December - the tales of public sector waste and corruption put Gordon Clown and his pals in to the shade.

Now that is a big claim. I find it very hard to believe, Brown is just better at hiding it.

Big - but true.

Irish politicians have been on the fiddle for decades - and big money amounts too.

[kenny Chim 4]

Disgraceful Eric, but who will hold them to account, as such?

It certainly appears that the 'Celtic Tiger' economy is licking some serious wounds..and not unexpected.

[robm3]

speedy_thrills said:

HappyGoLucky said:

JRM said:

Potatos? Oh no that's wrong...

You're right, it's wrong.... It's potatoEs!

Peat (turf), Agricultural goods, Booze...ummm...Waterford crystal?

I think Dell and Roche used to operate out of the Shannon free zone or whatever it is/was called.

Mostly service industries TBH.

Did you know a large amount of the UK's drugs moved in through the Shannon Bonded Zone area. Security was so poor there, it would land un-inspected then get trucked into Northern Ireland and from there into the UK.... the route with the least checks (oh, also funded the rise of the Limerick 'super gangs' and subsequent wars over control of it)

Dell was outside of this area but operated under significant corporate tax relief, Micheal Dell was another yank who thought he was Irish and used to come over for the jollies in his little corporate jet. They treated him like a god in Limerick which is fair enough seeing his plant supported 20% of the region's economy (direct/indirect).

The West of Dublin is going to suffer the most, large track housing developments that peaked at €400K per house and were built on incomes from local IT manufacturing (3com, Lucent, IBM, Apple, Symantec, Claris etc..) that flourished under the generous taxation but has now deserted it for Eastern Europe.

I spent three years in that country and the only really good thing I can say about it is it makes England look a good prospect.

Edited by robm3 on Tuesday 31st March 04:02

Edited by robm3 on Tuesday 31st March 04:03

[speedy_thrills]

robm3 said:

I spent three years in that country and the only really good thing I can say about it is it makes England look a good prospect

I lived there for eleven years and wholeheartedly agree.