Can Peaceful Protest get results?

[Fittster]

tinman0 said:

Fittster said:

Then you might have a chance of changing the system. Islamic terrorists have the will but the objective is to wishy/washy, what exactly do they want?

I think the general problem is that we have a Govt that doesn't listen, has lied in its manifestos, has been quite abysmal, has put through legislation it had no right on putting through, and has done it best to dismantle democracy in the UK, and people do feel totally disenfranchised.

But, we are British at the end of the day so we don't do coups. We can also see a General Election in the not too distant future and people are simply planning for that.

Hmm, I don't think the next election will make the slightest difference. Recent popular protests have been

Fuel Duty
Anti-war
Pro hunting
Anti-europe

Would Dave be significantly different to Gordon on those issues?

[Don]

Spiritual_Beggar said:

So you vote at elections....but what if you can't wait for elections? What if things were getting so bad that you couldn't wait 6 months to a year!?

There is nothing that can be done constitutionally in between elections. So long as the Government of the day doesn't decide to suspend democracy we get our chance to dish out an electoral kicking once every five years. The next opportunity is a year next May.

All the protestors, rioters and whoever can do what the feck they like it will not change a thing UNLESS the politicos believe that they will ALL turn up at the polling booth and VOTE the same way they demonstrated.

Demonstration draws attention to something.

Votes change matters.

That's the way it works unless you have a decent sized army and lots of weapons. Then you can enforce your will regardless of democracy. But the British Army is fairly unlikely to stage a coup I'd warrant.


Edited for apalling spelling and grammar.

Edited by Don on Wednesday 1st April 19:45

[digger_R]

Don said:

Spiritual_Beggar said:

So you vote at elections....but what if you can't wait for elections? What if things were getting so bad that you couldn't wait 6 months to a year!?

There is nothing that can be done constitutionally in between elections. So long as the Government of the day don't decide to suspend democracy we get our chance to dish out an electoral kicking once every five years. The next oppo is a year May.

All the protestors, rioters and whatnot can do what the feck they like it will not change a thing UNLESS the politicos believe that they will ALL turn up at the polling booth and VOTE the same way they demonstrated.

Demonstration draw attention to something.

Votes change matters.

That's the way it works...unless you have a decent sized army and lots of weapons. Then you can enforce your will regardless of democracy. But the British Army is fairly unlikely to state a coup I'd warrant.

Given what you've just stated - the logical conclusion is for the system to be changed. I'm not sure if we really can afford to wait another 12 months before the next lot come in and we reset the counter to repeat it all over again with different issues part way through the 2nd/3rd Conservative term

[ToadHall]

Gandhi was the king of the peaceful protest.

[tinman0]

Fittster said:

Hmm, I don't think the next election will make the slightest difference. Recent popular protests have been

Fuel Duty
Anti-war
Pro hunting
Anti-europe

Would Dave be significantly different to Gordon on those issues?

I think we've gone further than that now. There is real and genuine resentment right now in most sections of society. People want a change, in exactly the same way as 97. Except people aren't optimistic with D-ream Things Can Only Get Better, but more Things Frankly Can't Get Any Worse.

[Don]

digger_R said:

Given what you've just stated - the logical conclusion is for the system to be changed. I'm not sure if we really can afford to wait another 12 months before the next lot come in and we reset the counter to repeat it all over again with different issues part way through the 2nd/3rd Conservative term

You may want it to change.

To change it you need to join a political party. Lobby that party to include electoral reform as part of its manifesto. Then you need to persuade voters to vote for that party under THIS system based on the idea that the NEW system would be better. Then you need to get voted into power.

Once in power you need to NOT decide to chuck away the idea of reform - you need to hang onto it and implement it.

Then it will be changed.

Only the truly dedicated and phenomenally lucky have ever succeeded.

The other way, of course, is with a sizeable army. Good luck with that.

[Somewhatfoolish]

Ultimately the best plan is overwhelming force, I'm afraid.

[elster]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I think protesting went out the window when maggie sent in the police against the miners.

Protesting has meant jack st since then.

No the protesting was quite successful actually.

Successfully managed to destroy the mining industry in one foul swoop.

The problem with protesting is it is the same protesters, who are almost career protesters. So therefore no one will take any notice.

If Average Jo Bloggs on the street decided to protest en mass. I think it would make a difference. However the career protesters will then get involved to fight your corner. Then the whole charade is just another exercise for the soap dodgers to interfere with and ultimately ruin the initial aim.

[Jazzer77]

Around 1 million people took to the streets of London in 2003 to voice their opposition to the forthcoming invasion of Iraq.
It had zero effect on the government.

People have learned that there is no real redress either through peaceful protest or subsequent "legal" action after the fact. Note the many inquiries through the years and how they find in favour of the status quo.

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable" JFK

[thinfourth2]

Fittster said:

Hmm, I don't think the next election will make the slightest difference. Recent popular protests have been

Fuel Duty
Anti-war
Pro hunting
Anti-europe

Would Dave be significantly different to Gordon on those issues?

There will be a huge difference




In their choice of tie

[TimJMS]

I've been on some protests which have been ignored even when there have been 300,000 others with me.

I do believe that voicing your concerns to your local MP in a personal way can make a difference - unless your local MP is a trough snuffler. Fortunately mine is excellent

[Martial Arts Man]

It is wrong to cite Ghandi in this context.

Ghandi's actions only worked because of the violence meted out to uprisings in India.

They could only work in these circumstances.

We aren't there quite yet.......give NuLab another term, and we may well need our own Ghandi!


Whilst on the subject, this quote sprang to mind:

"You can get much further with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." Al Capone

[HiRich]

Twincam16 said:

The ban on protests in Parliament Square is a prime example - people just weren't disobedient and vociferous enough, so they just let these infringements happen.

You should know that that particular law is now totally unworkable (Jack Straw committed to repeal that particular clause a year ago - presumably he's been too busy fiddling his expenses to get around to it). This was achieved through creative, peaceful protesting by quite a small group.