Would you vote for or against Scottish independence?

[Pooh]

JagLover said:

Pooh said:

grumbledoak said:

Sick of the whinging. And saddling us with Labour. Again.

ps off. Best of luck with it.

At least try to get your facts correct when you are whinging, Scotland did not saddle you with labour, they would have got in without any Scottish MPs.

At the last election the Tories had a higher share of the vote in England than Labour. It would have been very close to a hung parliment without the Scottish MPs. You can perhaps understand English resentment as laws that only effect England only get through Parliment with the votes of Labour's Scottish MPs.

I know about the Tory share of the vote(I am a Conservative)and I fully agree that the West Lothian question needs to be resolved but Scotland is not responsible for the Labour government, we do not all vote Labour, the SNP is well ahead of Labour and they have little support outside the major cities.

[glazbagun]

AndrewW-G said:

It wont happen as long as the flow of cash into Scotland exceeds the revenues generated in Scotland. Yes I know that North Sea oil has produced vast amounts of income for the UK govenment to squander on crap, however even keeping the money generated scotland would apparently still be £5-6B short each year


Source http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2007/feb/08/sco...

I think that, even if Scotland were/is a net producer of tax revenue, there would probably be a drop in living standards simply from the cost of reallocating government resources and the alteration of business environment. I don't think that would neccesarily be such a terrible initial price to pay if we got a more accountable government. We'd also have a smaller military presence in other countries, which would save money, but would probably (at least) be cancelled out by the need for embassies/trade delegations and the fact that we would be competing with the rest of the UK for foreign business, as opposed to being a component of it.

[bp1]

LHD said:

I consider myself British first and Scottish second.

If there is ever a vote on Scottish independance and it goes through i'll move back to England.

I'm sorry, but an independant Scotland would be a disaster IMO.

This.

All we would end up with is a useless cunch of bunts trying to recreate some sort of red clydeside utopia while anybody who actually earns money gets taxed to the hilt.

Or they could surprise me and come up with proper proposals for a flat rate tax scheme for individuals and companies, only allow those in private sector employment to vote and some sort of plague that infects careers doleites, but these things often backfire

[FourWheelDrift]

Last Election (2005) would not have been even close to a hung parliament if Scottish votes were discounted.

Seats
Labour - 356
Conservative - 198
Lib-dems - 62

Scotland vote
Labour - 41
SNP - 11
Libdem - 6
Conservative - 1

Taking those results out of the total would give

Labour - 315
Conservative - 197
Libdem - 56


Still a Labour majority.

[Gedon]

Scottish Oil shale will be an important primary industry in the future.

It's in the interest of GB that we hang onto Scotland in order to control this, just as it is in the interests of the EU to grab the UK for Coal/Minerals in due course.

I predict when oil peaks, there will be renewed interest in Coal for power and UK mining. Despite the Germans having developed Coal Liquification technology, I think Oil Shale is probably a better bet, conservation wise.

My initial comment was that the importance of the GB exceeds that of Scotland Leaving. If GB split up into separate nations, I (and a lot of others) would not be happy being lumped in with England as we are historically and some may argue legally not a county, but a separate entity down here. The whole point is that fractions of the British Isles are historically separate and remnants of this are found in flags/2nd languages, cultures, etc.

In terms of potential as a country, the Union is better than us broken into chunks. I understand the sentiment behind Scottish Independence but practically, unless they plan to sponge off the EU, they are doomed from a primary industry point of view. Oil shale will be considerable, but not really enough to run the joint (as a hunch). Assuming they are allowed the revenue of North Sea Oil, that could run out. I wonder how many Shetlanders consider themselves to be not Scottish, but a separate body? (I recall reading that this was the case). So, if you start hammering wedges in, you could crack off a lot more than your own bit.

What would suit everyone as well as making a lot more sense would be to dilute and decentralise government. What happens in Whitehall in a lot of cases is almost irrelevant elsewhere. The last thing we need is to concentrate it and move it even further away (EU).

Anyway, that's my 2p

[chippy17]

I see myself as British, if this means anything; I am half English, quarter Welsh, eighth Indian and the rest is unkown, I am a mish mash just like the UK and the sooner we unite properly the better

alhtough the only good thing about independance as has been mentioned is Brown dissapears

[glazbagun]

Shetland has a long history of autonomy and was only declared a crown dependency in the 17th century, I think.

[Gedon]

glazbagun said:

Shetland has a long history of autonomy and was only declared a crown dependency in the 17th century, I think.

I recall hearing that Scottish oil is actually Shetland oil.....if they wanted to go down that route!

People crave independence from centralised, totalitarian government. I reckon.

[esselte]

Gedon said:

glazbagun said:

Shetland has a long history of autonomy and was only declared a crown dependency in the 17th century, I think.

I recall hearing that Scottish oil is actually Shetland oil.....if they wanted to go down that route!

People crave independence from centralised, totalitarian government. I reckon.

So will Scotland leave the EU if it gets independence..?

[Saddle bum]

I'm English, now't else.

Roll on Scots independence.

£20billion a year saved.

[ettore]

I'm English and pro-UK.

We have achieved a hell of a lot more for both ourselves, and for the world, as a unified kingdom than we would have been able to do as a fractured island.

I'm amazed that centuries-old internecine squabbles dominate sensible thought. I though the Scottish (and English) were brighter than that.

Edited by ettore on Thursday 24th September 11:17

Edited by ettore on Thursday 24th September 11:18

[Pooh]

esselte said:

Gedon said:

glazbagun said:

Shetland has a long history of autonomy and was only declared a crown dependency in the 17th century, I think.

I recall hearing that Scottish oil is actually Shetland oil.....if they wanted to go down that route!

People crave independence from centralised, totalitarian government. I reckon.

So will Scotland leave the EU if it gets independence..?

No, that is the most ridiculous thing about the whole SNP position, we don't want to be ruled by the government in London because they are too remote but we are happy to be ruled from Brussels.

I was discussing this with an SNP activist outside a polling station a while ago and even he admitted that it is daft.
I am a unionist because I think Britain is stronger as a whole rather than split up.

[Pooh]

ettore said:

I though the Scottish (and English) were brighter than that.

Some of us are but you only have to see the amount of drivel spouted on this thread to see that plenty are not.

[Lefty Guns]

JagLover said:

I voted for independence.

Simply because there would be less chance of a Labour government with Scottish independence. It is obvious they want to live a Socialist existence, so fine let them. There is no reason for the rest of us to pay the price for this.

Yout think SNP would be better?

[esselte]

Lefty Guns said:

JagLover said:

I voted for independence.

Simply because there would be less chance of a Labour government with Scottish independence. It is obvious they want to live a Socialist existence, so fine let them. There is no reason for the rest of us to pay the price for this.

Yout think SNP would be better?

What influence would they have in Westminster if Scotland were independent..? (I think that's what JL meant anyway..)

[cs02rm0]

Other British.

They can have independence, as long as they take their votes and MPs.

[AndrewW-G]

Pooh said:

esselte said:

Gedon said:

glazbagun said:

Shetland has a long history of autonomy and was only declared a crown dependency in the 17th century, I think.

I recall hearing that Scottish oil is actually Shetland oil.....if they wanted to go down that route!

People crave independence from centralised, totalitarian government. I reckon.

So will Scotland leave the EU if it gets independence..?

No, that is the most ridiculous thing about the whole SNP position, we don't want to be ruled by the government in London because they are too remote but we are happy to be ruled from Brussels.

I was discussing this with an SNP activist outside a polling station a while ago and even he admitted that it is daft.
I am a unionist because I think Britain is stronger as a whole rather than split up.

If it's the physical location of the government, we could move them to the middle of the country Leeds or Sheffield would be perfect, middle of the island and could benefit from the regeneration all those expense accounts would bring (before I have dozens of angry emails from leeds/sheff people, it was a joke)

[grumbledoak]

Pooh said:

Some of us are but you only have to see the amount of drivel spouted on this thread to see that plenty are not.

[JagLover]

ettore said:

I'm amazed that centuries-old internecine squabbles dominate sensible thought. I though the Scottish (and English) were brighter than that.

I bear the Scots no ill will. But it is obvious we want very different things from Government. They were unhappy under Thatcher and many in England have been unhappy under Labour.

The solution is either to go our seperate ways (in an amicable split) or to have a proper devolution of powers to BOTH Scotland and England.

[s2art]

JagLover said:

ettore said:

I'm amazed that centuries-old internecine squabbles dominate sensible thought. I though the Scottish (and English) were brighter than that.

I bear the Scots no ill will. But it is obvious we want very different things from Government. They were unhappy under Thatcher and many in England have been unhappy under Labour.

The solution is either to go our seperate ways (in an amicable split) or to have a proper devolution of powers to BOTH Scotland and England.

In what way would that be different from the current position? When you say proper devolution, what is it that needs devolving further?