Is Cameron an utter failure?

[DJRC]

Why is it wrong to ask you to save £40m a year?

[Morningside]

I thought one of the main problems for lack of cash in the NHS is due to PFI. Some hospitals are in debt even before they have opened to the public.

[oyster]

Mojocvh said:

Pesty said:

Mojocvh said:

I hope this is the right thread

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18138447

Another total fail from the mong himself!

What did he say about this at the time?

Same s**t. At least he can be consistently wrong. As Derek quietly pointed out, we may need a big friend sometime soon.

You still haven't explained what the fail is?

[rich1231]

Ruskie said:

I work in the NHS and I am also a realist. Everybody is going to have to do there bit to help the country. In my case it's going to be pay freezes, Pension change and lower recruitment leading to more work load for those that are employed.

What I cannot stand is the promises that were spouted pre-election which have been completely disregarded. Vowing to protect the NHS etc. Why is there no accountability for the lies?

My trust alone has to save £40m over 5 years. Looking at other trusts this is going to result in pay reduction as well as erosion of terms and conditions.

In my opinion we are stagnated with a leader who has no charisma, knowledge of the real world or any idea how to change it.

I'd suggest that working in the NHS gives you no understanding of the real world.

[andymadmak]

I do smile when the left seeks to characterise Cameron and his cabinet as "out of touch", as if in some way the millionaires and career politicos in the shadow cabinet are any "more in touch"

Right now, Camerons biggest failing is that he is taking all the brickbats for having imposed "swingeing cuts and austerity" when in actual fact he has cut bugger all other than defence. He's taking a kicking for the budget supposedly being "for his rich mates" when in fact the changes to personal allowances means most low paid workers will benefit hugely! I could list other examples, but you get my point. How on earth did he manage to lose the PR battle so comprehensively? But then of course, having pissed off Murdoch, and with the BBC's inherent leftism he was never going to stand a chance in the battle for sympathetic (or even accurate) media coverage. All of which makes me wonder why he doesn't just go for it and bring about the necessary savings in double quick time. After all, he can hardly be treated any more harshly than he already is being by the media!
Balls was on the radio this morning, chuntering on about "investing in jobs" and such like. I just had to switch off in thge end, especially as there was no counter argument being put forward (thanks again BBC for the balanced coverage - not)
The most damaging thing about the present situation is that the left is slowly seducing the hard of thinking into a state of absolute denial over the severity of the problems. Two years into this Government, with spending still rising, bugger all by way of cuts and no real sign of reducing the deficit, and Balls is actually getting traction with the electorate by proposing to borrow and tax and spend more - precisely the policies that helped get us into this mess in the first place!

[Trommel]

Ruskie said:

My trust alone has to save £40m over 5 years. Looking at other trusts this is going to result in pay reduction as well as erosion of terms and conditions

How about sacking some of the non-job "managers", or was there a real need to double their numbers between 1997 and 2007?

[andymadmak]

rich1231 said:

Ruskie said:

I work in the NHS and I am also a realist. Everybody is going to have to do there bit to help the country. In my case it's going to be pay freezes, Pension change and lower recruitment leading to more work load for those that are employed.

What I cannot stand is the promises that were spouted pre-election which have been completely disregarded. Vowing to protect the NHS etc. Why is there no accountability for the lies?

My trust alone has to save £40m over 5 years. Looking at other trusts this is going to result in pay reduction as well as erosion of terms and conditions.

In my opinion we are stagnated with a leader who has no charisma, knowledge of the real world or any idea how to change it.

I'd suggest that working in the NHS gives you no understanding of the real world.

Amen to that!

I was talking to someone over the weekend who works for the NHS. Their handle on reality was tenuous to say the least. No question of making choices and cutting back on the "nice to haves" to ensure the preservation of the "essentials". Basically, if it was being spent in the NHS in her view, then it was being spent wisely and 100% on essentials. There was no waste and, bizarrely, no need for any savings. We just (apparently) need to make the Sunday Times rich list "pay more tax" (answers to questions of "how much extra?" "how to enforce if they don't live here or move abroad?" were not available) and borrow more. (from who? at what rate of interest? for how long? on what payback model?) She also said we needed to tax the "Banksters" (sic) more and make the private sector "pay its way" - according to her only the public sector is suffering. Oh, and there isn't really a crisis, it's just the Tories being idealogically driven to push down the working man for the benefit of the millionaires. All delivered with the same spittle flecked enthusiasm of the true socialist. Adolf would have been proud!
One wonders how these people function, let alone hold down responsible jobs in health care - maybe that's why my experience of NHS care last year nearly killed me!

[NobleGuy]

sjn2004 said:

Two years in and as far as I can see he's delivered nothing.

The country is being swamped with beggers from Eastern Europe, what happened to the immigration controls? Under EU law you need to be able to support yourself to enter another state but it seems Cameron is happy to let EU beggers, criminals and chancers to come here.

He gave another 10 billion to the IMF to prop up the dying euro, while at the same time destroying the NHS.

And what happened to banning car clampers, squatters etc? He's even failed on the simple stuff.

How can anyone have such a short memory as to think going anywhere near Labour for the next 200 years is something you'd want to think about...? How many billions has Mr Smiler and Mr Dour wasted? Jesus man...unbelievable

[cal216610]

NobleGuy said:

How can anyone have such a short memory as to think going anywhere near Labour for the next 200 years is something you'd want to think about...? How many billions has Mr Smiler and Mr Dour wasted? Jesus man...unbelievable

I think lots of folk were expecting changes overnight and not really knowing the depth of ste we are/were in.

[Ruskie]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Alot of posts to reply to buy will try in the one post.

Of course there is waste and problems with efficiency as with any organisation of the NHS size. For me there doesn't seem to be any accountability for any decisions that are made wrongly but the right ones are praised beyond belief.

Of course the size of the overall budget is relevant to any cuts being made. But I don't want to turn the thread into some thing specific and not on topic. It's too big a topic to just discuss briefly and has many branches all related, patient care, targets, staffing, budgets, etc

Terms and conditions are very subjective and for every point I made about the subject someone from the private sector will come along and say they do it a the time, for less money etc so I think that is a debate for another day.

[Ruskie]

rich1231 said:

I'd suggest that working in the NHS gives you no understanding of the real world.

I am actually quite offended by that statement. Especially as I work my arse off to make sure the public have confidence in what we do and more importantly provide a high standard of care. I care for rich,poor,young,old,British,non British and anyone else you care to mention to exactly the same standard regardless. I pay my taxes and like everyone else barring the well off I am feeling the squeeze. I am in the real world and it's not pretty.

[loafer123]

Ruskie said:

Especially as I work my arse off to make sure the public have confidence in what we do and more importantly provide a high standard of care.

Management or PR?

[NobleGuy]

cal216610 said:

NobleGuy said:

How can anyone have such a short memory as to think going anywhere near Labour for the next 200 years is something you'd want to think about...? How many billions has Mr Smiler and Mr Dour wasted? Jesus man...unbelievable

I think lots of folk were expecting changes overnight and not really knowing the depth of ste we are/were in.

It's like trying to turn a runaway oil tanker on a sixpence...was never going to be a quick fix.

[Munter]

cal216610 said:

NobleGuy said:

How can anyone have such a short memory as to think going anywhere near Labour for the next 200 years is something you'd want to think about...? How many billions has Mr Smiler and Mr Dour wasted? Jesus man...unbelievable

I think lots of folk were expecting changes overnight and not really knowing the depth of ste we are/were in.

I'm with you guys.

Scary the people who seem to think it can all be fixed in a few months. I'm thinking decades from now for us to have recovered.

[KENZ]

Is this goverment not having to borrow 60Billion more than the last. Even when Brown was leader it was never this bad. At least we were coming out of a recession, not heading into a second, double dip..

We need smarter minds that can provide stimulus, confidence and promote grow in this economy. Granted the present alternative ain't great. However I think Blair could gather a good team again.

[Caulkhead]

Ruskie said:

What I cannot stand is the promises that were spouted pre-election which have been completely disregarded. Vowing to protect the NHS etc. Why is there no accountability for the lies?

It's very simple - the pre-election promises were what you would get if a tory, lib-dem or labour government were elected. As it is we ended up with a coalition government so all bets are off. As a secondary issue to that, labour did a blindingly good job of hiding just how deep the st was until they actually left power.

[NobleGuy]

KENZ said:

Is this goverment not having to borrow 60Billion more than the last. Even when Brown was leader it was never this bad. At least we were coming out of a recession, not heading into a second, double dip..

We need smarter minds that can provide stimulus, confidence and promote grow in this economy. Granted the present alternative ain't great. However I think Blair could gather a good team again.

Oh...my...God... Blind. How can you even suggest Blair, under whom our national debt doubled, is worthy of anything other being given some tough questions...?

Have a read about the time before Labour were in power...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Government_197...

[Munter]

KENZ said:

However I think Blair could gather a good team again.

Would he not have had to do that the 1st time around in order to do it "again"?

[bobbylondonuk]

Ruskie said:

I am actually quite offended by that statement. Especially as I work my arse off to make sure the public have confidence in what we do and more importantly provide a high standard of care. I care for rich,poor,young,old,British,non British and anyone else you care to mention to exactly the same standard regardless. I pay my taxes and like everyone else barring the well off I am feeling the squeeze. I am in the real world and it's not pretty.

You can work as hard as you like and deliver the best results....all good.

But we are talking numbers here and sentiments dont apply in that equation. For the cost of running the state...
Public sector spending (your wages) - discount on the cost (your taxes) = total net spending.
The income for the public sector spending is the taxes on private sector profits.

So what do you think we should do if the income(pvt sector taxes) are less than the cost(your wages-taxes)???? This question is what needs to be asked in the real world.

[andymadmak]

KENZ said:

Is this goverment not having to borrow 60Billion more than the last. Even when Brown was leader it was never this bad. At least we were coming out of a recession, not heading into a second, double dip..

We need smarter minds that can provide stimulus, confidence and promote grow in this economy. Granted the present alternative ain't great. However I think Blair could gather a good team again.

The first recession was made by Brown. The second recession is a combination of Eurozone on its arse and the need to tighten our belts. Simples. We would not have to tighten our belts if Brown and Blair hadn't spent every bit of cash we had and then some, and then some more, and then robbed the pension funds and spent that, and spent and spent and spent and spent..

Now, I do understand that for some people, the simple act of changing Government two years ago means that everything that went before simply disappears in a puff of white smoke, and the new kids get to carry the can for everything that happens from then on in. However, back amongst the sane, the reality is that the mess was /is huge and it will take a long time to sort out.

Think of it this way.
You and your neighbour both work at the same factory. You earn about the same.

Your neighbour spends money like water. He maxes out every credit card he has and only makes the minimum payment monthly on each one. He splashes the cash on fancy holidays, a new car every year, eats out regularly, has all the latest gizmos as soon as they appear on the market. He is constantly remortgaging his house so as to cash in on the "equity" he has in it as a result of house prices rising. He hires a gardner and a window cleaner. He even has a lady do his ironing, on account of his wife not wishing to engage in manual work... .
You, on the other hand, are a bit prudent. You save a bit, you only use the credit card when you have to, and you pay it off monthly. You change your car every three years or so. You maybe wait till the new gizmos have come down in price a bit before you buy them, and you and the missus maybe eat out once a month. You're paying down your mortgage. You do your own gardening and ironing.Your missus works hard too.

Then something nasty happens. Customers have stopped buying what your factory makes and as a result the place is put on short time. Your and your neighbours earnings fall by 30%.
Thats really tough for your household. So, you cancel the meals out, decide to go to Torquay for your hols instead of Trinidad, and keep the car for an extra year before changing it. You stop buying gizmos. You have some savings and this helps. Plus you have a great credit rating, so you can borrow cheaply if you need to. You and your missus look at maybe taking a second job or two. You do what you can to manage the situation. You make tough choices.

Your neighbour however is in real trouble. He cannot afford the drop in income. In fact he needs his income to carry on rising as he has borrowed against a projected pay rise he was never promissed but simpoly assumed he would get!
He cannot pay less to the card companies, he is already on the minimum. So he tries, but cannot get another card!
Bizarrely though, he still keeps spending. He complains that his holidays, cars, meals and gizmos are essential, nay they are his by human right! He has a hole in his roof, so some of his gizmos are being ruined by the rain, but he decides to spend what little money he has on a new 60 inch plasma from Brighthouse instead of the repair. His kids get pneumonia from the wet bedding caused by the leaking roof, but that's not his fault.
It's not his fault he can't pay his bills, fix his roof or protect his family. It's not his fault he has no savings. It's all the nasty customers fault, and the banks, oh yes the banks, cos they LET him borrow didn't they? It's not his fault they said yes to his repeated requests for more funds! Indeed, in his mind, the problem now is not that he persists in spending too much, but rather that he is not spending enough! If he could spend more, then, well, he could stimulate the local economy. The minor details as to just whos money he is going to have to get his hands on to spend really doesnt factor for now. He just wants to keep spending becuase he is comfortable with his life and does not want to change it.
So you take him to one side and you point out that the mess is of his own making. That he has to economise. He needs to be sensible, cut out the fripperies and concentrate on keeping a roof over his head and paying down the debt.
He reacts angrilly. How can you criticise him? Huh, your car is MUCH older than his, so that means you're clearly an idiot. But wait a minute, YOU have money, YOU have savings, YOU have a credit rating that means you can borrow if you need to... THATS IT!!!!! It's your fault he's in a mess! The answer is simple! He'll spend YOUR money. He can change his car this year after all. Still doesn't fix the roof mind... thats for social services to do. In fact so many people are relying on social services to fix the roof, rather than fixing it themselves, that YOUR savings now have a special tax on them just to pay for the rise in Government expenditure.
In the final analysis, your savings are gone. Spent to prop up your spendthrift neighbour and those just like him.