Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!
Discussion
Ayahuasca said:
If I were in a car on the motorway doing 80mph and I couldn't stop...
...I would find a truck going 70mph and crash into the back of it.
That's a v good point. Although possibly easier said than done! (Better yet an ooo 78.5mph one I guess…) ...I would find a truck going 70mph and crash into the back of it.
This case - or rather, the scenario it appears to be if you discount the suicide/walting side of things - is the stuff of nightmares for me. My van's totally drive by wire, all goes through a computer and I can't physically reach anything except the adapted controls to intervene if it goes haywire. (It's a Spacedrive system by Paravan for the curious.) I always pay attention to the few escape lanes round here… the system has, I think, sufficient redundancy in it that loss of electronic control while moving is near impossible, but it's still a deeply unpleasant thought.
AdeTuono said:
Should we have a separate thread for 'Does an accelerator pedal move when under cruise control?' Seems to be derailing the thread slightly.
And yes, it does. IME.
What no one embroiled in this sub discussion seems able to grasp is that some do, and some don't. And yes, it does. IME.
I had a Honda years ago (1993 car) in which the accelerator did move, but the (mostly German) cars I've had since, they don't.
Pretty certain that on a modern car like the Octavia in question, it wouldn't physically move unless actually pressed.
B'stard Child said:
AdeTuono said:
B'stard Child said:
GazV70R said:
Zod said:
I don't believe there is a single car on the market now or in the past thirty years on which the accelerator pedal is moved by the cruise control.
What about every car produced with cruise control that had a cable operated throttle and not drive by wire?For example my Mk1 V70R had cruise that physically moved the accelerator - was very useful for smoothly coming off cruise once you'd got used to the weird sensation!
And yes, it does. IME.
I had the pleasure of being a passenger recently in a modern car being driven by an idiot - these things are a safety net to help you when you are caught out - he was driving the car to and beyond the limit because the car was sorting it out for him so to him there was no risk
All the safety aids and driver assistances cannot defeat physics....
I'll not get in a car with him again I hope he only hurts himself.....
Several years ago I had a TVR Griff 500HC. By modern standards it was absolutely stark staring mental! Even by the standards of the time it was extreme.
We are now at a point, I think, whereby many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use powerful older cars which have no driver aids. The Griff didn't even have ABS, let alone anything as exotic as traction control. I'm not saying that my driving ability was anything out of the ordinary - and to be honest I was drifting towards the opinion that you should have had to have passed some of high-performance test to dive one - but I had an appreciation of what it could do and how difficult it could be. Anyone who has grown up with modern cars, especially fast modern cars, I think, stands a massively much higher risk of getting into serious trouble with something like a TVR or an older Porsche than they would have done twenty years ago.
AJL308 said:
B'stard Child said:
AdeTuono said:
B'stard Child said:
GazV70R said:
Zod said:
I don't believe there is a single car on the market now or in the past thirty years on which the accelerator pedal is moved by the cruise control.
What about every car produced with cruise control that had a cable operated throttle and not drive by wire?For example my Mk1 V70R had cruise that physically moved the accelerator - was very useful for smoothly coming off cruise once you'd got used to the weird sensation!
And yes, it does. IME.
I had the pleasure of being a passenger recently in a modern car being driven by an idiot - these things are a safety net to help you when you are caught out - he was driving the car to and beyond the limit because the car was sorting it out for him so to him there was no risk
All the safety aids and driver assistances cannot defeat physics....
I'll not get in a car with him again I hope he only hurts himself.....
Several years ago I had a TVR Griff 500HC. By modern standards it was absolutely stark staring mental! Even by the standards of the time it was extreme.
We are now at a point, I think, whereby many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use powerful older cars which have no driver aids. The Griff didn't even have ABS, let alone anything as exotic as traction control. I'm not saying that my driving ability was anything out of the ordinary - and to be honest I was drifting towards the opinion that you should have had to have passed some of high-performance test to dive one - but I had an appreciation of what it could do and how difficult it could be. Anyone who has grown up with modern cars, especially fast modern cars, I think, stands a massively much higher risk of getting into serious trouble with something like a TVR or an older Porsche than they would have done twenty years ago.
Ayahuasca said:
AJL308 said:
B'stard Child said:
AdeTuono said:
B'stard Child said:
GazV70R said:
Zod said:
I don't believe there is a single car on the market now or in the past thirty years on which the accelerator pedal is moved by the cruise control.
What about every car produced with cruise control that had a cable operated throttle and not drive by wire?For example my Mk1 V70R had cruise that physically moved the accelerator - was very useful for smoothly coming off cruise once you'd got used to the weird sensation!
And yes, it does. IME.
I had the pleasure of being a passenger recently in a modern car being driven by an idiot - these things are a safety net to help you when you are caught out - he was driving the car to and beyond the limit because the car was sorting it out for him so to him there was no risk
All the safety aids and driver assistances cannot defeat physics....
I'll not get in a car with him again I hope he only hurts himself.....
Several years ago I had a TVR Griff 500HC. By modern standards it was absolutely stark staring mental! Even by the standards of the time it was extreme.
We are now at a point, I think, whereby many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use powerful older cars which have no driver aids. The Griff didn't even have ABS, let alone anything as exotic as traction control. I'm not saying that my driving ability was anything out of the ordinary - and to be honest I was drifting towards the opinion that you should have had to have passed some of high-performance test to dive one - but I had an appreciation of what it could do and how difficult it could be. Anyone who has grown up with modern cars, especially fast modern cars, I think, stands a massively much higher risk of getting into serious trouble with something like a TVR or an older Porsche than they would have done twenty years ago.
I still miss it. But drive one regularly on today's roads? Christ, no! You'd have to pay me.
As TVRs are mentioned above, this pic of a G15 in front of the TR7, among a gaggle of TVRs and Morgans etc gives the idea of size!
Imagine that among today's monsters and idiots. The winters I drove home during heavy snow make me shudder now. But I suppose back then they did grit and try to clear the roads.
AJL308 said:
We are now at a point, I think, whereby many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use powerful older cars which have no driver aids.
I would go so far as to say many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use a modern car.When I first got in my Elise I had three pedals, a gear lever and steering wheel, I got in and drove it. I have never had a car with cruise control, I would have to learn how it works in order to use it. Keyless entry, keyless starting not a clue pass me the instruction manual.
AJL308 said:
We are now at a point, I think, whereby many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely use powerful older cars which have no driver aids.
I'd go further: many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely manipulate the mass or dimension of cars they can afford via PCP...Re: the Ginetta G15 above - I completely agree with the owner's perspective; I run a driver-aid-free BEC, a Fisher Fury with an R1 engine, which is comparable, if 100kg lighter (!)
By far the scariest moment I have had in 7 years of driving it was an Audi Q7 skeetering to a halt behind me, having paid no attention to traffic ahead until damn-nigh too late. Nevermind my MSA roll bar & Petty strut, it came within an ace of overrunning me from behind without ever feeling the impact. I needed a change of pants, and likely for simple want of q7s 'liking' something ephemeral on FB - the driver's attention was entirely elsewhere, and once carefully explained, could still not understand: a two-tonne-w
ker!Edited by Huff on Saturday 26th November 02:17
Huff said:
I'd go further: many people's driving ability is woefully insufficient to be able to safely manipulate the mass or dimension of cars they can afford via PCP...
Re: the Ginetta G15 above - I completely agree with the owner's perspective; I run a driver-aid-free BEC, a Fisher Fury with an R1 engine, which is comparable, if 100kg lighter (!)
By far the scariest moment I have had in 7 years of driving it was an Audi Q7 skeetering to a halt behind me, having paid no attention to traffic ahead until damn-nigh too late. Nevermind my MSA roll bar & Petty strut, it came within an ace of overrunning me from behind without ever feeling the impact. I needed a change of pants, and likely for simple want of q7s 'liking' something ephemeral on FB - the driver's attention was entirely elsewhere, and once carefully explained, could still not understand: a two-tonne-wker!
That is exactly why my (un-driver aided, not even a brake servo) Westfield remains in the garage, on SORN, and is brought out for track days and MoT runs only. I've owned it for 13 years and had too many scares from other drivers simply not seeing me and my underpant stock is too low to continue.Re: the Ginetta G15 above - I completely agree with the owner's perspective; I run a driver-aid-free BEC, a Fisher Fury with an R1 engine, which is comparable, if 100kg lighter (!)
By far the scariest moment I have had in 7 years of driving it was an Audi Q7 skeetering to a halt behind me, having paid no attention to traffic ahead until damn-nigh too late. Nevermind my MSA roll bar & Petty strut, it came within an ace of overrunning me from behind without ever feeling the impact. I needed a change of pants, and likely for simple want of q7s 'liking' something ephemeral on FB - the driver's attention was entirely elsewhere, and once carefully explained, could still not understand: a two-tonne-w
ker!Edited by Huff on Saturday 26th November 02:17
condor said:
I think a lot of people only learn what they need to know. More advanced functions can be tried when they're confident that the basics have been mastered.
I've been wondering why the lorry was in a lay-by, I didn't think there were lay-bys on motorways.
It's an A road at that point.I've been wondering why the lorry was in a lay-by, I didn't think there were lay-bys on motorways.
Sorry for not trading all the way through but some of us don't realise just how clueless and stupid some people are with cruise control especially if they panic.
An ex colleague was being driven by another ex colleague down the M6 from Scotland. The driver was a particularly bad driver, well known in the company, I refused to be driven by him. One of his endearing traits, of many, was an inability to hold any sort of constant throttle position to give smooth and steady speeds. On off on off on off on off, all the farking time, he'd made more than knew person vomit with this.
Anyway passenger persuades him to try the CC, explains how it all works, how to disengage it etc etc and on they go. OK for a while, then he starts catching a lorry up and cannot move out to overtake because of other traffic. They're getting closer and closer, passenger is screaming at the driver what to do, tries to reach across to hit the CC off button gets his hands batted away, now getting too close, still screaming at the driver to just brake and it will disengage.
Driver then disengaged the CC alright, 70mph, middle lane of the M6, driver grabs the keys, turns the engine off and takes keys out of ignition. By sheer luck they did make it to the hard shoulder.
Same chap used someone's drive to turn round, reversed over a bush, which was then jammed under floor pan lifting the drive wheels off the deck.
Drove into flood water where a fire and rescue pump was sitting well up the wheel arches, hydraulic locked the engine.
Every company car went back with dings and dents in every panel, even the roof once.
Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.
An ex colleague was being driven by another ex colleague down the M6 from Scotland. The driver was a particularly bad driver, well known in the company, I refused to be driven by him. One of his endearing traits, of many, was an inability to hold any sort of constant throttle position to give smooth and steady speeds. On off on off on off on off, all the farking time, he'd made more than knew person vomit with this.
Anyway passenger persuades him to try the CC, explains how it all works, how to disengage it etc etc and on they go. OK for a while, then he starts catching a lorry up and cannot move out to overtake because of other traffic. They're getting closer and closer, passenger is screaming at the driver what to do, tries to reach across to hit the CC off button gets his hands batted away, now getting too close, still screaming at the driver to just brake and it will disengage.
Driver then disengaged the CC alright, 70mph, middle lane of the M6, driver grabs the keys, turns the engine off and takes keys out of ignition. By sheer luck they did make it to the hard shoulder.
Same chap used someone's drive to turn round, reversed over a bush, which was then jammed under floor pan lifting the drive wheels off the deck.
Drove into flood water where a fire and rescue pump was sitting well up the wheel arches, hydraulic locked the engine.
Every company car went back with dings and dents in every panel, even the roof once.
Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.
Vipers said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Never had a car with cruise that moved the accelerator, all have been DBW though.
And suicide is my bet.
As I said earlier, my Granada Ghia did, and others have said the same thing.And suicide is my bet.
FiF said:
Sorry for not trading all the way through but some of us don't realise just how clueless and stupid some people are with cruise control especially if they panic.
An ex colleague was being driven by another ex colleague down the M6 from Scotland. The driver was a particularly bad driver, well known in the company, I refused to be driven by him. One of his endearing traits, of many, was an inability to hold any sort of constant throttle position to give smooth and steady speeds. On off on off on off on off, all the farking time, he'd made more than knew person vomit with this.
Anyway passenger persuades him to try the CC, explains how it all works, how to disengage it etc etc and on they go. OK for a while, then he starts catching a lorry up and cannot move out to overtake because of other traffic. They're getting closer and closer, passenger is screaming at the driver what to do, tries to reach across to hit the CC off button gets his hands batted away, now getting too close, still screaming at the driver to just brake and it will disengage.
Driver then disengaged the CC alright, 70mph, middle lane of the M6, driver grabs the keys, turns the engine off and takes keys out of ignition. By sheer luck they did make it to the hard shoulder.
Same chap used someone's drive to turn round, reversed over a bush, which was then jammed under floor pan lifting the drive wheels off the deck.
Drove into flood water where a fire and rescue pump was sitting well up the wheel arches, hydraulic locked the engine.
Every company car went back with dings and dents in every panel, even the roof once.
Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.
Really makes you wonder if someone can get their license.. An ex colleague was being driven by another ex colleague down the M6 from Scotland. The driver was a particularly bad driver, well known in the company, I refused to be driven by him. One of his endearing traits, of many, was an inability to hold any sort of constant throttle position to give smooth and steady speeds. On off on off on off on off, all the farking time, he'd made more than knew person vomit with this.
Anyway passenger persuades him to try the CC, explains how it all works, how to disengage it etc etc and on they go. OK for a while, then he starts catching a lorry up and cannot move out to overtake because of other traffic. They're getting closer and closer, passenger is screaming at the driver what to do, tries to reach across to hit the CC off button gets his hands batted away, now getting too close, still screaming at the driver to just brake and it will disengage.
Driver then disengaged the CC alright, 70mph, middle lane of the M6, driver grabs the keys, turns the engine off and takes keys out of ignition. By sheer luck they did make it to the hard shoulder.
Same chap used someone's drive to turn round, reversed over a bush, which was then jammed under floor pan lifting the drive wheels off the deck.
Drove into flood water where a fire and rescue pump was sitting well up the wheel arches, hydraulic locked the engine.
Every company car went back with dings and dents in every panel, even the roof once.
Forrest Gump, stupid is as stupid does.
TheInternet said:
condor said:
I think a lot of people only learn what they need to know. More advanced functions can be tried when they're confident that the basics have been mastered.
I've been wondering why the lorry was in a lay-by, I didn't think there were lay-bys on motorways.
It's an A road at that point.I've been wondering why the lorry was in a lay-by, I didn't think there were lay-bys on motorways.
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