Discussion
crankedup said:
Perfect for those 1700 and increasing steel workers that are just losing their jobs then!
Green Blob energy prices, Climate Change Act, Labour, go figure.Sure CMD has been just as silly at times but he's waking up now with Osborne and Lawson on the case, and the CCA is Labour's massive fail.
edh said:
CorbynForTheBin said:
Well done!
The lefties will see you as scum, as you've had an aspiration though!
Such nonsense. Some people are so keen to caricature "lefties" and tell us what we think. The lefties will see you as scum, as you've had an aspiration though!
I applaud work, initiative, and a desire to improve your situation.
crankedup said:
Indeed, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of many posters on this forum. 'Leftie' = lazy, work shy, hand outs, kinda people and features in every thread almost. The truth is that many so called 'Lefties' (apparently I'm a Leftie) are far from that.
I'm a leftie in theory, but the problem is the UK is in a very difficult place to put it into practice these days. As debt has got out of control by Labour spending during the good times it means around 10% of the money the government spends is going on interest rates. That is almost half the education budget going on something that gives the UK no benefit whatsoever. And despite all the cuts the country is still getting more into debt. If you say we need to keep spending and increase debt now you are just saying we are spending the money of future generations on us (because they will have to pay it back). And if the debt grows too big it will really mess up them as it will be very difficult to pay back and so cuts later will have to be even worse (for people who didn't even get the benefits of the spending). Explain how that is fair?I actually am living in Norway now (follow the work) and they got it right (albeit it they had some advantages to get them there). But when simplified it comes down to politicians in the past saving for future generations. Due to the fund it means they keep out of debt and so can support a good "leftie" culture of looking after people now. Not just spending money that is not available because people "deserve" it, when in practice it is unsustainable as you can't just grow debt forever.
And Labour are saying they will spend their way out... how does investing in lots of stuff help the UK in a way that increasing the rent from a bit under 10% of the budget get it down? You can improve education, but when it comes down to it companies will go to the cheapest place to operate in the world. So even if we spend lots on training it won't really result in a huge increase in jobs. And if it doesn't then suddenly you are faced with a Leeds United situation - spend and the success will come, which you can use to pay back the debt you took to get there. Problem was it failed and destroyed the football club. Want to take that risk with the country?
MarshPhantom said:
Would you relocate 200 miles away for a minimum wage/zero hours contract?
Hate to piss on your bonfire but the majority of people on Zero hours are happy with the hours they get.. Thats from an actual survery rather than just picking on it because "zero" sounds bad.My wife and I are both in zero hours (at each end of the scale) and we a perfectly happy with the situation.
98elise said:
MarshPhantom said:
Would you relocate 200 miles away for a minimum wage/zero hours contract?
Hate to piss on your bonfire but the majority of people on Zero hours are happy with the hours they get.. Thats from an actual survery rather than just picking on it because "zero" sounds bad.My wife and I are both in zero hours (at each end of the scale) and we a perfectly happy with the situation.
However, in general and to certain people, it's better to sponge off the state aka taxpayers than shift your arse to start at a basic level and work your way up.
On the wage element, if NMW is too low then somebody could apply for a job that pays more. If that's not feasible, then the reason won't rest with the higher paying employer, it will be something to do with the applicant. Guesses on a postcard to Jeremy Corbyn c/o CND.
crankedup said:
Also I said that cheap housing areas are fine but you have to ask why the housing is cheap, answer no work.
But there have been examples posted of 'cheap' (or at least affordable) housing in the Sheffield area - and also numerous examples of jobs paying anything from minimum wage up to £200k (and everything in between) in this same area.The assertion that houses are only cheap/affordable in areas where there are no jobs just doesn't seem to hold weight.
There are plenty of other examples. My parents old house sold for £83k earlier in the year (3 bed mid terrace in the NW). There are currently 2600 jobs listed with an hour's commute of this location on Jobsite alone. Plenty of big/blue-chip companies operate in the area.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 17th October 12:17
NRS said:
I actually am living in Norway now (follow the work) and they got it right (albeit it they had some advantages to get them there). But when simplified it comes down to politicians in the past saving for future generations. Due to the fund it means they keep out of debt and so can support a good "leftie" culture of looking after people now. Not just spending money that is not available because people "deserve" it, when in practice it is unsustainable as you can't just grow debt forever.
I think also, a nation not having pretensions to being a big s
tkicker on the world stage, and being content with it's place in the world also helped a lot.MarshPhantom said:
Would you relocate 200 miles away for a minimum wage/zero hours contract?
My parents moved the whole family from near Inverness to Hampshire for a wage that would have been classed as minimum wage if that term had existed then, (it didn't, everyone just called it 'getting a job'). They figured that it would at least open up opportunities for other jobs if it didn't work out, and it did. I myself have lived and worked all over the country for different jobs; Fife, Kent, Norfolk, Devon, Lincolnshire, and many more until my current job in London. I started off on crappy wages and while I'm not earning huge amounts now I'm fairly comfortable. If I'd sat on my arse and waited for the jobs to come to me I'd no doubt still be on crappy wages.crankedup said:
Most posters and yourself now seem to think that solving the housing crisis is simply a matter of people moving around the Country to find work! It's pointless looking back regarding solving the current housing problem, we need a recognition and acceptance of the problem existing and followed by strong Government policy intervention to fix the problem. Telling people to move is not going to help at all.
There is no bloody crisis! If there were, do you think so many from Europe and beyond would still want to come here?There is a crisis of expectation - that someone 'should' be able to buy their own home. Why? Look at France, and it's home ownership rates. What's wrong with renting?
I'm of the age you're saying is impossible for normal working people to buy their own home. Yet I, as a sole worker in a four person family, have managed to buy a lovely house, on the South Coast in a prime holiday village, where there's loads of work. How can I have done that when you and others are pointing out how difficult it is?
For the record, I managed to buy my place just after the credit crunch hit - when 'no-one was lending, and first time buyers were shut out the market'.
You and others then say 'ah, but the North is declining massively, heavy industry is gone and there's no jobs so people can't afford even the cheap houses up there'. Then Karl comes in and shows that not only has he managed to work his way up the ladder and buy, but in a massively short time from a starting point of homelessness at 18.
This is the problem with Corbyn, and the 'something must be done' brigade. It ignores the experiences of those who, apparently against all odds, are leading lives that don't fit your rhetoric. We take offence at our achievements, limited that they are, are written off with banal and inaccurate statements like 'those few fortunate enough to have been supported by parents are the only ones able to balance rent and deposit saving'.
Sway said:
This is the problem with Corbyn, and the 'something must be done' brigade. It ignores the experiences of those who, apparently against all odds, are leading lives that don't fit your rhetoric.
That's the one good thing about the whingers. Something is being done by many, hard work, relocation and saving money. From Scots going to London to Poles starting car washes in Newcastle people are doing what need to be done.And these are the people who will ultimately and rightly benefit from the whingers when they have a chain of corner shops, car washes, taxis or a buy to let portfolio and are able to extract the low wages or benefit money from them while they moan about lack of opportunities.
The fact they can't see that is their problem.
98elise said:
MarshPhantom said:
Would you relocate 200 miles away for a minimum wage/zero hours contract?
Hate to piss on your bonfire but the majority of people on Zero hours are happy with the hours they get.. Thats from an actual survery rather than just picking on it because "zero" sounds bad.My wife and I are both in zero hours (at each end of the scale) and we a perfectly happy with the situation.
Sway said:
crankedup said:
Most posters and yourself now seem to think that solving the housing crisis is simply a matter of people moving around the Country to find work! It's pointless looking back regarding solving the current housing problem, we need a recognition and acceptance of the problem existing and followed by strong Government policy intervention to fix the problem. Telling people to move is not going to help at all.
There is no bloody crisis! If there were, do you think so many from Europe and beyond would still want to come here?There is a crisis of expectation - that someone 'should' be able to buy their own home. Why? Look at France, and it's home ownership rates. What's wrong with renting?
I'm of the age you're saying is impossible for normal working people to buy their own home. Yet I, as a sole worker in a four person family, have managed to buy a lovely house, on the South Coast in a prime holiday village, where there's loads of work. How can I have done that when you and others are pointing out how difficult it is?
For the record, I managed to buy my place just after the credit crunch hit - when 'no-one was lending, and first time buyers were shut out the market'.
You and others then say 'ah, but the North is declining massively, heavy industry is gone and there's no jobs so people can't afford even the cheap houses up there'. Then Karl comes in and shows that not only has he managed to work his way up the ladder and buy, but in a massively short time from a starting point of homelessness at 18.
This is the problem with Corbyn, and the 'something must be done' brigade. It ignores the experiences of those who, apparently against all odds, are leading lives that don't fit your rhetoric. We take offence at our achievements, limited that they are, are written off with banal and inaccurate statements like 'those few fortunate enough to have been supported by parents are the only ones able to balance rent and deposit saving'.
There is certainly a crisis of shortage of housing in all sectors + the affordability for those 1st time buyers on average incomes.
Those are the facts, why do you think the Government is under pressure for a resolution on the problem?
All sorts, but particularly the bulk who know they're not going to fall into a high paid job in banking, can easily find out the earnings and living costs available, yet are coming over in their thousands to make a better life for themselves and their families.
If it was so bloody difficult, there wouldn't be the appeal. Yet they see opportunity everywhere in the UK.
If it was so bloody difficult, there wouldn't be the appeal. Yet they see opportunity everywhere in the UK.
crankedup said:
Try getting a mortgage on zero hours contracts.
You've got to be trolling, surely?What possible reason would there be, given the nature of their employment for them to want a mortgage, or for a bank to want to lend?
Some people are not suitable for mortgages. These include most students, pensioners, the unemployed and those on zero hours contracts. I don't hear them moaning about it, just you. For the solution is very simple, get a better job, save some money and then worry about getting a mortgage.
Talk about putting the cart before the horse ffs.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff