What's Italian for 'kipper? Anti-migrant stunt goes awry.
Discussion
Guam said:
So pressure for mates, competition for food and a desire to have your genes pre-empt others is not in Darwin?
Evolutionary pressure would not drive humans to survival of the fittest over those in the next valley?
Maybe your copy was the kindergarten version?
...
No, the real version, which you are distorting and caricaturing. Have a look here for some references.Evolutionary pressure would not drive humans to survival of the fittest over those in the next valley?
Maybe your copy was the kindergarten version?
...
http://www.darwinproject.ac.uk/darwin-human-nature
The Right has for long sought to misuse Darwin to justify its arguments. At its worst this led to eugenics and the dark places that took us to.
In addition, because we possess culture we are not governed strictly by evolutionary biology, as Dawkins (whose early work in "The Selfish Gene" has also been misrepresented and distorted for malevolent political purposes) has explained in his later writings. We prefer not to let sick children die, for example, and don't act simply as creatures driven by evolutionary impulses that we cannot avoid.
I agree with both points. We have not entirely opted out of selection, but the way in which Darwin's subtle ideas are treated simplistically and used by those pursuing agendas of dominance and division is well known, and it's as wrong now as it was last century. Yikes! Nearly said the G word.
I am too skint to go there. Alfa, Lancia, Fiat, yes, but Italians with horses, bulls* and tridents are too ka-bling for me. The real reason that I diss St Nige is that he drives a German car, and all German cars are s
t, as any fule kno. Cars? They come from Italy. Ciao!
* German anyway, so, meh.
t, as any fule kno. Cars? They come from Italy. Ciao!* German anyway, so, meh.
No bigots in UKIP. Nope, none at all. Not one. Not even candidates for local elections. No, definitely not them. Uh uh, never happen.
Oh, hang on...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1078...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/24/uk...
Cheers, Nige!
Oh, hang on...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/1078...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/24/uk...
Not at all bigoted no Sir not me UKIP bloke said:
“Get over it, slavery was an act of war.You lost stop being so damn jealous and move forward.”
“Muslims are animals their faith is disgusting their prophet is (a) pedophile”. (sic)
[Ed Miliband] “He is Polish and not British so how'd he know what's good for Britain?”
“I was born and grew up in Africa please leave Africa for the Africans lets them kill themselves off don’t go there” ....
PS: broke my Resolution, but too much fun to miss.“Muslims are animals their faith is disgusting their prophet is (a) pedophile”. (sic)
[Ed Miliband] “He is Polish and not British so how'd he know what's good for Britain?”
“I was born and grew up in Africa please leave Africa for the Africans lets them kill themselves off don’t go there” ....
Cheers, Nige!
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th April 19:56
UKIP is basically a one man party, but Farage appears to be a lazy man who leaves any actual work to his minions, and frankly they are either inept or they really don't mind which hatey loons they let in. If Farage was really passionate about anything, he might pay more attention. I think he isn't passionate. I think he is in it for money and celebrity. He will no doubt brush this off as another atypical aberration, and bluff and bluster on.
santona1937 said:
exactly, the career politicians have not shown themselves to be better for being in a career, so an amateur might be just the ticket in the publics' mind ?
There you are, falling for the spin again. Farage may run an amateurish show, but he isn't an amateur. He is a professional career politician. He's been an MEP since 1999.I gather that the current 'Kipper line is "we throw these people out straight away, which shows what stand up guys we are". Fabulous! UKIP keep on having to throw out hatey idiots, and then have the front to try to make a virtue of how quickly they chuck the hateys out when they get caught being hatey. Might UKIP not stop and think "hmmm, isn't it odd that we keep having so many hatey idiots to throw out"? Nope, press on!
Can someone please offer a non xenophobic basis for objecting to free movement of workers within the EU?
Note that I said workers, as that is what the Treaty is about. Contrary to the myths propagated by UKIP, there are not unqualified free movement rights for those who are not economically active.
Note also that I said free movement, and that means movement is possible in all directions within the EU. Many thousands of Brits are resident and economically active in other EU States. This pattern may increase as the idea of free movement beds in. My daughter (aged nine at present and able to get by in basic French) will probably learn German and maybe Spanish, and if she wants to go to university in Berlin or work in Madrid that will be fine by me.
Contrary to another myth, it is not impossible to deport criminals. I have been involved in the deportation of several (by representing HMG in Court on the cases). It can be difficult in some cases to deport some of them, and some do get to stay (my opinion is that the Courts have got Article 8 ECHR wrong in some of these cases, but the Supreme Court trumps my opinion). Some of the crims that UKIP et al complain of were raised here, so they are really our problem, not the problem of some place where they lived until they were three. Dumping some crim somewhere they have no real connection with on the basis of the mere accident of birth is not exactly principled.
Answers that say "OMG 9789 kabillion Europeeps could all move here tomorrow OMG!!!!" will be put straight in the bin. Real world answers, please.
Note that I said workers, as that is what the Treaty is about. Contrary to the myths propagated by UKIP, there are not unqualified free movement rights for those who are not economically active.
Note also that I said free movement, and that means movement is possible in all directions within the EU. Many thousands of Brits are resident and economically active in other EU States. This pattern may increase as the idea of free movement beds in. My daughter (aged nine at present and able to get by in basic French) will probably learn German and maybe Spanish, and if she wants to go to university in Berlin or work in Madrid that will be fine by me.
Contrary to another myth, it is not impossible to deport criminals. I have been involved in the deportation of several (by representing HMG in Court on the cases). It can be difficult in some cases to deport some of them, and some do get to stay (my opinion is that the Courts have got Article 8 ECHR wrong in some of these cases, but the Supreme Court trumps my opinion). Some of the crims that UKIP et al complain of were raised here, so they are really our problem, not the problem of some place where they lived until they were three. Dumping some crim somewhere they have no real connection with on the basis of the mere accident of birth is not exactly principled.
Answers that say "OMG 9789 kabillion Europeeps could all move here tomorrow OMG!!!!" will be put straight in the bin. Real world answers, please.
A supplement to my question above: Some people are worried about the Romanians in Britain. They don't seem very worried about the French in Britain. Why? Perhaps because the French people here are nice and well behaved and often earn high and pay high tax. Some of the Romanians do that too (I know some high faluting Romanian lawyers who have been here paying megatax for ages). Some Romanians are low skilled but honest and keen to work, some are crims and chancers. We are in a transient phase as the eastern economies and societies catch up and modernise. We let them in too early, perhaps, but look at the progress that Poland has made since the fall of the USSR, with help from us.
WinstonWolf said:
Breadvan72 said:
London is the sixth largest city in France. There has been large scale movement of French people. This does not attract much comment. Romanians attract comment.
As for resources, is there any evidence that resources cannot cope with migrant workers? Is this just supposition?
When did you last try to get a doctors appointment? Ever been out on the roads and noticed it can be just a teensy bit busy at times? Got kids, notice how all the decent schools are over subscribed? As for resources, is there any evidence that resources cannot cope with migrant workers? Is this just supposition?
Are resources unlimited or finite?
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 25th April 15:55
Further on resources: are migrants scapegoats for poor resource management decisions by successive governments?
Why come here? Jobs, obviously. Southern Europe has fewer jobs on offer. As noted above, many migrants go to Germany and elsewhere. The narrow UKIP approach misses this. Other reasons to come? English as world language, and also tolerance and welcome. The fearful Little Englanders and rancid xenophobes are few in number, overall. A lot of Brits are tolerant and rub along with recent arrivals, especially as we are a nation of migrants that has been part of Europe since far earlier than 1972.
Why come here? Jobs, obviously. Southern Europe has fewer jobs on offer. As noted above, many migrants go to Germany and elsewhere. The narrow UKIP approach misses this. Other reasons to come? English as world language, and also tolerance and welcome. The fearful Little Englanders and rancid xenophobes are few in number, overall. A lot of Brits are tolerant and rub along with recent arrivals, especially as we are a nation of migrants that has been part of Europe since far earlier than 1972.
When asylum was the big issue a few years back, Germany had the most asylum claimants within the EU, and most refugees then as now flee one poor or war ravaged country and shelter, often wretchedly, in a nearby poor country that can barely cope with the influx; but if you believe the tub thumpers all asylum seekers in the world come here.
To listen to UKIP you would think that only the UK suffers the problems of modernity. Little Englanders indeed.
To listen to UKIP you would think that only the UK suffers the problems of modernity. Little Englanders indeed.
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