Anjem Choudary
Discussion
Likes Fast Cars said:
Digga said:
I might as well start a terror campaign until my demands for free whiskey fountains at every street corner were met. 
And then you're going to start an inter-denominational war about which whisky: Highland, Speyside, etc., or American (Kentucky or Tennessee), etc... 
AJS- said:
Agree about Saudi. The main element missing from the Saudi regime is that they don't claim the allegiance of Muslims worldwide.
My understanding of the Sunni/Shia split is that it's mostly about succession rather than fundamental differences about theology or Islamic law.
From wikipedia...My understanding of the Sunni/Shia split is that it's mostly about succession rather than fundamental differences about theology or Islamic law.
The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants).
I think we should be careful not to give too much reverence or get hysterical about these things, it can only lead to reactionary responses on both sides, a Caliphate, Kingdom or Quasi idealogue dictatorship is by no means an unusual way of running a territory, infact globally it's probably the norm and certainly has been throughout history. Democracy is obviously the least worst system and should be encouraged but declaring other systems of government as illegitimate will only lead us into hypocrisy because like Saudi, China and a dozen other tin pot dictatorships we've diplomatically got into bed with over the last few decades, we will have to deal with them as a fact of life.
AJS- said:
All that said, Choudary wasn't charged with simply calling for a caliphate (and nor should he be) he was convicted of inviting support for ISIS.
Could he be done for Treason?That's apparently life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_...
Pesty said:
He wants an Islamic state. Let him prove he isn't a hypocrite by letting him relocate his entire family and any of his crowd to IS.
Job done.
On previous threads I have put forward the idea that people convicted of certain crimes should have their British Citizenship revoked upon conviction. Whenever I have said that people reply that it is illegal (it is, but the law can be changed) and immoral as it is a grave abuse of someone's human rights to intentionally make them stateless.Job done.
This is one of those cases and I stand by my opinion. This scumbag does not want to be British. He would rather that the British state cease to exist. He wants the UK to become part of a foreign Muslim caliphate involving an end to the rule of law as we know it, to be replaced, wholesale, with foreign laws and values.
I do not accept that it is morally outrageous to rescind this chaps citizenship. It is, I think, a perfectly reasonable response to someone who is committing treason in all but name.
DuncB7 said:
Having checked the Home Office website to confirm to myself the 10 year maximum sentence, I stumbled upon a document detailing a list of banned organisations.
Call me naïve but I was shocked to discover the vast majority of these terrorist organisations (70) seemingly fight to form an Islamic state. I find the whole concept and ideology utterly frightening. Where have these people derived such a strange and barbaric ideology from? I thought it was limited to an imaginery friend and his autobiography. Were such extreme thoughts prevelant 50+ years ago or, is this a recent interpretation of the religion?
Agree with many previous posters; I don't believe the maximum 10 years will be imposed. What I do however see is a retaliation from his supporters on the streets of the UK.
I'm sure they were - we just hadn't been stupid enough to import so many of the adherents 50 years ago!Call me naïve but I was shocked to discover the vast majority of these terrorist organisations (70) seemingly fight to form an Islamic state. I find the whole concept and ideology utterly frightening. Where have these people derived such a strange and barbaric ideology from? I thought it was limited to an imaginery friend and his autobiography. Were such extreme thoughts prevelant 50+ years ago or, is this a recent interpretation of the religion?
Agree with many previous posters; I don't believe the maximum 10 years will be imposed. What I do however see is a retaliation from his supporters on the streets of the UK.
Trevatanus said:
AJS- said:
All that said, Choudary wasn't charged with simply calling for a caliphate (and nor should he be) he was convicted of inviting support for ISIS.
Could he be done for Treason?That's apparently life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_...
Stickyfinger said:
irocfan said:
PositronicRay said:
Considerably less than 10yrs I'd of thought, that's the maximum term for the offence, sentencing to take place on 6th September.
So maybe 5-6yrs, backdated because of the time he's already served awaiting trial. Out in 3-4yrs.
I hope I'm wrong though.
well there is a 'get out' here, surely if here's 'still a danger to the public' he can be kept under lock and key. The only way to release him should be if he denounces IS?So maybe 5-6yrs, backdated because of the time he's already served awaiting trial. Out in 3-4yrs.
I hope I'm wrong though.
Stickyfinger said:
AJL308 said:
It isn't the EU Human Rights law. The European Convention on Human Rights which led to the Human Rights Act is nothing to do with the EU.
Still b
ks even if called EC Law or EU law...The ECHR is an international treaty signed by us and loads of other Countries totally independently of the EU/EC/Common Market/EuroTom/European Coal and Steel Community or what other plethora of names it's been called in the past.
FredClogs said:
Unfortunately I suspect he might be more popular in prison than you'd expect, he certainly appears to have the psychological tools to groom the sort of people who end up in prison and he certainly knows how to gain the system and play the law. The worst case scenario here is that he becomes a martyr to some on the outside and a leader, role model and evangelist to those on the inside.
I'm afraid that I tend to think Freds post is more on the mark than you might hope fortechiedave said:
FredClogs said:
Unfortunately I suspect he might be more popular in prison than you'd expect, he certainly appears to have the psychological tools to groom the sort of people who end up in prison and he certainly knows how to gain the system and play the law. The worst case scenario here is that he becomes a martyr to some on the outside and a leader, role model and evangelist to those on the inside.
I'm afraid that I tend to think Freds post is more on the mark than you might hope forFredClogs said:
From wikipedia...
The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants).
I think we should be careful not to give too much reverence or get hysterical about these things, it can only lead to reactionary responses on both sides, a Caliphate, Kingdom or Quasi idealogue dictatorship is by no means an unusual way of running a territory, infact globally it's probably the norm and certainly has been throughout history. Democracy is obviously the least worst system and should be encouraged but declaring other systems of government as illegitimate will only lead us into hypocrisy because like Saudi, China and a dozen other tin pot dictatorships we've diplomatically got into bed with over the last few decades, we will have to deal with them as a fact of life.
A lot of truth in that.The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants).
I think we should be careful not to give too much reverence or get hysterical about these things, it can only lead to reactionary responses on both sides, a Caliphate, Kingdom or Quasi idealogue dictatorship is by no means an unusual way of running a territory, infact globally it's probably the norm and certainly has been throughout history. Democracy is obviously the least worst system and should be encouraged but declaring other systems of government as illegitimate will only lead us into hypocrisy because like Saudi, China and a dozen other tin pot dictatorships we've diplomatically got into bed with over the last few decades, we will have to deal with them as a fact of life.
I'm not convinced that a caliphate would be an altogether bad thing.
It would probably get caught up in ordinary politics like the Catholic and Anglican "Caliphates" have done and end up as a fairly benign and irrelevant institution wittering on about global warming and the like, as nationalised industries do. Instead we have a true free market in Islamic fundamentalism. And it's remarkably successful as religions go.
The Ottoman Empire was arguably well on its way to this anyway until the great omni-folly of WW1 threw everything up in the air.
AJS- said:
FredClogs said:
From wikipedia...
The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants).
I think we should be careful not to give too much reverence or get hysterical about these things, it can only lead to reactionary responses on both sides, a Caliphate, Kingdom or Quasi idealogue dictatorship is by no means an unusual way of running a territory, infact globally it's probably the norm and certainly has been throughout history. Democracy is obviously the least worst system and should be encouraged but declaring other systems of government as illegitimate will only lead us into hypocrisy because like Saudi, China and a dozen other tin pot dictatorships we've diplomatically got into bed with over the last few decades, we will have to deal with them as a fact of life.
A lot of truth in that.The Sunni branch of Islam stipulates that, as a head of state, a caliph should be elected by Muslims or their representatives.[4] Followers of Shia Islam, however, believe a caliph should be an Imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (the "Family of the House", Muhammad's direct descendants).
I think we should be careful not to give too much reverence or get hysterical about these things, it can only lead to reactionary responses on both sides, a Caliphate, Kingdom or Quasi idealogue dictatorship is by no means an unusual way of running a territory, infact globally it's probably the norm and certainly has been throughout history. Democracy is obviously the least worst system and should be encouraged but declaring other systems of government as illegitimate will only lead us into hypocrisy because like Saudi, China and a dozen other tin pot dictatorships we've diplomatically got into bed with over the last few decades, we will have to deal with them as a fact of life.
I'm not convinced that a caliphate would be an altogether bad thing.
It would probably get caught up in ordinary politics like the Catholic and Anglican "Caliphates" have done and end up as a fairly benign and irrelevant institution wittering on about global warming and the like, as nationalised industries do. Instead we have a true free market in Islamic fundamentalism. And it's remarkably successful as religions go.
The Ottoman Empire was arguably well on its way to this anyway until the great omni-folly of WW1 threw everything up in the air.
It's obvious that people are not aware of what Islam represents and what it sets out to achieve.
A Caliphate demands Sharia law be applied.
Take a read - this guy is a Muslim, very well-balanced (also a leading defence industry analyst):
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8406/turkey-vic...
And ow about this:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8300/palestinia...
I know a lot of Muslims (Shia and Sunni, but mostly Sunni) most of those I know are, thankfully, what one would term "not practising". And for very good reasons.
Islam is a way of life go on, check it out, it is all-encompassing, all-consuming, it's a lifestyle, with a commitment for all Muslims to convert non-believers (there is plenty of information out there on this).
Likes Fast Cars said:
Do you really believe that?
It's obvious that people are not aware of what Islam represents and what it sets out to achieve.
A Caliphate demands Sharia law be applied.
Take a read - this guy is a Muslim, very well-balanced (also a leading defence industry analyst):
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8406/turkey-vic...
And ow about this:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8300/palestinia...
I know a lot of Muslims (Shia and Sunni, but mostly Sunni) most of those I know are, thankfully, what one would term "not practising". And for very good reasons.
Islam is a way of life go on, check it out, it is all-encompassing, all-consuming, it's a lifestyle, with a commitment for all Muslims to convert non-believers (there is plenty of information out there on this).
You are aware that there is at least half a dozen countries in the world that operate full Shariah law and at least a dozen more that operate some kind of theologically controlled legal system the majority of which we have full and normalised diplomatic relations with.It's obvious that people are not aware of what Islam represents and what it sets out to achieve.
A Caliphate demands Sharia law be applied.
Take a read - this guy is a Muslim, very well-balanced (also a leading defence industry analyst):
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8406/turkey-vic...
And ow about this:
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/8300/palestinia...
I know a lot of Muslims (Shia and Sunni, but mostly Sunni) most of those I know are, thankfully, what one would term "not practising". And for very good reasons.
Islam is a way of life go on, check it out, it is all-encompassing, all-consuming, it's a lifestyle, with a commitment for all Muslims to convert non-believers (there is plenty of information out there on this).
Edited by FredClogs on Wednesday 17th August 21:41
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff