Free Marine A

[Zoobeef]

dai1983 said:

Zoobeef said:

He did the wrong thing, got caught and should be punished. If something was held back from the trial though then that should be looked at as everyone deserves a fair trial. It's one of the things we fight for ffs.

Pretty much this really.

By the way WTF is a "snackbar"?

Rhyming slang for Allah ackbah (spelling?) I presume.

[anonymous-user]

dai1983 said:

Zoobeef said:

He did the wrong thing, got caught and should be punished. If something was held back from the trial though then that should be looked at as everyone deserves a fair trial. It's one of the things we fight for ffs.

Pretty much this really.

By the way WTF is a "snackbar"?

Something that people here seem to find rather amusing for some reason.

[menousername]

Zoobeef said:

REALIST123 said:

Which, as we all know, is exactly what would happen. So why are we so exercised when it happens the other way around?

Because we shouldn't lower ourselves to their level. There are rules and regulations and conventions. Many people died to bring around all of these and we are just supposed to throw them away on a whim.

How hard is it to realise there are things you cannot do and getting caught doing them has consequences.

Not directed just at you, general question...what would have been the alternative action? What would have happened to him if he received medical attention and survived... Put on trial? Imprisoned?

Edited by menousername on Friday 11th September 23:07

[Zoobeef]

Immediate first aid. Recovered to bastion to be fixed then handed over to the ANA to be processed once we are done with him.

[Ginetta G15 Girl]

Dear fking Christ he is ON RECORD AS SAYING HE IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A WAR CRIME.

He convicted himself. He did that the moment he made his intentions clear on tape FFS!

He knew what he did was wrong.

Yet you tossers still defend him?

What Planet are you on?

[s2art]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Dear fking Christ he is ON RECORD AS SAYING HE IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A WAR CRIME.

He convicted himself. He did that the moment he made his intentions clear on tape FFS!

He knew what he did was wrong.

Yet you tossers still defend him?

What Planet are you on?

I dont wish to defend him, but I recognise that fighting barbarians in a foreign country is a rather different environment than someone committing a murder in the UK. You think this is bad, look at what happened when the allies invaded Europe after D-Day. War is dehumanising, and it might be asking too much that all our soldiers uphold the highest of standards all of the time. Punish him, but recognise that he was under high stress for a long time.

[LordHaveMurci]

s2art said:

I dont wish to defend him, but I recognise that fighting barbarians in a foreign country is a rather different environment than someone committing a murder in the UK. You think this is bad, look at what happened when the allies invaded Europe after D-Day. War is dehumanising, and it might be asking too much that all our soldiers uphold the highest of standards all of the time. Punish him, but recognise that he was under high stress for a long time.

Think that has been recognized, I'm sure a civvy murdering somebody would have received a harsher sentence?

He really did screw up, he may have thought the camera was off, doesn't make it better. He really should do the decent thing & take it on the chin, he ain't coming out of this well regardless.

[bad company]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Ayahuasca said:

There What's the difference?

The difference is that the Apache targets had not been taken prisoner.

In the Marines' case the enemy had been taken prisoner.

^^^^^^^^. This

[menousername]

Zoobeef said:

Immediate first aid. Recovered to bastion to be fixed then handed over to the ANA to be processed once we are done with him.

And then what would happen to him

[Zoobeef]

Their legal system. Trial, sentence if found guilty etc.

[Ayahuasca]

Before the Talib was shot with the pistol the marines' discussion suggests that they thought he was already dead. Firing a bullet into a dead body is not murder. Was an autopsy performed? Was it proven that the Talib was killed, not by the 139 30mm rounds fired by the Apache, but by one 9mm round fired by Marine A? If not, it is not murder. Even if the marines really believed the man was alive, unless an autopsy can prove the single 9mm bullet killed him, it is not murder.

[TheEnd]

Ayahuasca said:

Before the Talib was shot with the pistol the marines' discussion suggests that they thought he was already dead. Firing a bullet into a dead body is not murder. Was an autopsy performed? Was it proven that the Talib was killed, not by the 139 30mm rounds fired by the Apache, but by one 9mm round fired by Marine A? If not, it is not murder. Even if the marines really believed the man was alive, unless an autopsy can prove the single 9mm bullet killed him, it is not murder.

You really are kidding yourself.

The "he was dead" line was a pure bare faced lie to get out the fix he was in.
Why would you drag a body to somewhere out of sight to do it?
Why would you decide to shoot someone who was already dead?
Why would you admit to the other people it was against the Geneva and ask for them to make sure it doesn't go any further?

There's mention of a sucking chest wound too. You won't get much sucking on someone who isn't breathing.
They are even discussing field dressings.. for a dead man?

Put it this way, the "I thought he was dead" was probably the stupidest excuse possible.

[98elise]

Ayahuasca said:

Before the Talib was shot with the pistol the marines' discussion suggests that they thought he was already dead. Firing a bullet into a dead body is not murder. Was an autopsy performed? Was it proven that the Talib was killed, not by the 139 30mm rounds fired by the Apache, but by one 9mm round fired by Marine A? If not, it is not murder. Even if the marines really believed the man was alive, unless an autopsy can prove the single 9mm bullet killed him, it is not murder.

Read the transcripts.

They discuss how they will kill him. They move him so they are not seen. They radio that they are adminstering first aid (but are not). Then Marine A shoots him and admits he's just broken the geneva convention.

As has been said, dead bodies don't have sucking wounds.

[creampuff]

I'm a civilian. Personally I don't have a moral objection to what the soldier did. He was quite stupid being caught on tape and also saying what he did, I think he convicted himself.

I have a bit of trouble seeing the distinction between a ground soldier shooting a dying person in the head with small arms and a helicopter pilot shooting a dying person with another burst of 30mm auto canon fire when they are already obviously injured (not that this necessarily happened here, but there are plenty of videos on Liveleak where this has happened).

[audidoody]

Obviously injured but perhaps capable of chucking a grenade or firing off a few last rounds at some nearby squaddies

[Oilchange]

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Dear fking Christ he is ON RECORD AS SAYING HE IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A WAR CRIME.
He convicted himself. He did that the moment he made his intentions clear on tape FFS!
He knew what he did was wrong.
Yet you tossers still defend him?
What Planet are you on?

Nobody is a tosser here, get back in your box you fking idiot.

People are discussing what is basically 'Fog of war' something you would know nothing about, being a cossetted airwoman.

People are wondering about the mindset, the reasons a person would do such a thing, knowing it was possibly/probably/definitely wrong.

You, an airman, probably haven't seen or experienced the things a grubby, battle hardened SNCO has seen. You can't put yourself in his position having seen his boys blown apart, shot, treated like dirt. You cannot have the same mindset as him at the time he had a pistol in his hand when there was possibly an enemy ready to get back up and kill your boys without remorse after/during/before treatment.

So get off your bloody high horse for a moment. I'm tired of it.

Edited by Oilchange on Saturday 12th September 16:49

[TheEnd]

audidoody said:

Obviously injured but perhaps capable of chucking a grenade or firing off a few last rounds at some nearby squaddies

I'd agree with that-

"00:02:03 Marine B: There was a grenade there, as well, was there

Marine C: Yeah in his pocket"

If it was said he was reaching for his pocket, or had something in his hand, he'd have been a threat.

It's one of the most common statements made in a shooting, that someone looked like they were going for a weapon, whether a weapon existed or not.
A good reason why if you somehow end up being stopped by armed police, you don't quickly dive into your pocket to get something.

Instead, the guy picked "I thought he was already dead", something which has a lot stacked up against it.

[anonymous-user]

The recording was also visual which may have also contradicted the account.

[98elise]

Oilchange said:

Ginetta G15 Girl said:

Dear fking Christ he is ON RECORD AS SAYING HE IS ABOUT TO COMMIT A WAR CRIME.
He convicted himself. He did that the moment he made his intentions clear on tape FFS!
He knew what he did was wrong.
Yet you tossers still defend him?
What Planet are you on?

Nobody is a tosser here, get back in your box you fking idiot.

People are discussing what is basically 'Fog of war' something you would know nothing about, being a cossetted airwoman.

People are wondering about the mindset, the reasons a person would do such a thing, knowing it was possibly/probably/definitely wrong.

You, an airman, probably haven't seen or experienced the things a grubby, battle hardened SNCO has seen. You can't put yourself in his position having seen his boys blown apart, shot, treated like dirt. You cannot have the same mindset as him at the time he had a pistol in his hand when there was possibly an enemy ready to get back up and kill your boys without remorse after/during/before treatment.

So get off your bloody high horse for a moment. I'm tired of it.

Edited by Oilchange on Saturday 12th September 16:49

Then why wasn't that the basis of his defence?

Plenty of other serving and ex-forces have stated on this thread that Marine A is a murderer.

[Rovinghawk]

eatcustard said:

Red mist can happen very easy, yes what he did was wrong, but not worth jail time.

1 There was no red mist. It was a deliberate, planned act.
2 Yes it was wrong- he even pointed out that it was a war crime.
3 If killing helpless prisoners isn't worth jail time, what is?

FYI I have a commission tucked away upstairs. In the process of receiving it we were told in very clear terms how we were expected to behave & the penalties for failing to do so. The forces WILL keep their house in order.