Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Discussion
Elysium said:
I have been working for an international company for a few years now and it is really striking how many of our team work outside of their country of origin. We have a real mix of nationalities working all over Europe located in the best regions for their roles.
In reality, I can't imagine that will be jeopardized by this process. However, it does strike me that a lot of people in the UK cannot see the positive impact of freedom of movement.
The impact is likely to be more at the individual level, a lot of good candidates will have second thoughts about moving to the UK.In reality, I can't imagine that will be jeopardized by this process. However, it does strike me that a lot of people in the UK cannot see the positive impact of freedom of movement.
PurpleMoonlight said:
dandarez said:
As the landi comforted Ted, they all left. I think they were in shock. Perhaps they learnt something, but I doubt it.
What, that Ted voted out because he fought the Germans in a world war?Time have changed and they are right to be concerned with their future. Ted hasn't a lengthy one left to worry about.
If it wasn't for the likes of people like him you'd probably be goose-stepping.
Love your s
tty end bite, Ted doesn't have a lengthy future to worry about. His mates didn't either.The rowdy lot in the pub as you say are our future. Good luck with that then!
B'stard Child said:
I don't have an issue with a managed level of economic migration but the key word is managed - what really boils my weee is we have ~2 million people who can't/don't want to work because the welfare system leads to a better std of living than working - as a result we fill the jobs with economic migrants and fail to deal with the core issue?
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration.
- non-Eu immigration is managed .
- 188k non-EU immigrants vs 184k Eu-immigrants.
- Before brexit we had record number of people in employment, as pointed out by May two days ago.
Digga said:
jjlynn27 said:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration.
On the other points - a significant amount of non-EU applications are not controlled by us, but we're forced to accept them based upon ECJ (note, not ECHR) rulings.
Volumes - one is directly measured, one isn't. Not a valid comparison.
And so on.
Sway said:
Plus, in order to support the theory that zero control of European immigration creates the biggest possible benefit for the UK, a distribution curve of volumes vs net contribution would need to be shown...
On the other points - a significant amount of non-EU applications are not controlled by us, but we're forced to accept them based upon ECJ (note, not ECHR) rulings.
Volumes - one is directly measured, one isn't. Not a valid comparison.
And so on.
On the other points - a significant amount of non-EU applications are not controlled by us, but we're forced to accept them based upon ECJ (note, not ECHR) rulings.
Volumes - one is directly measured, one isn't. Not a valid comparison.
And so on.
What theory?
Even staunchly pro-Brexit anti-immigration 'migrationwatch' is in agreement that EU immigration is more beneficial than non-EU immigration.
It's a statement of fact based on empirical evidence.
What is the 'significant amount'? Numbers with links please.
OT: Do you still think that you could slash NHS budget by '30-50%' and improve service? Could be quite useful at the moment.
Elysium said:
Stickyfinger said:
Your Crap'O'meter is getting full
please post a single entry on the forum about cars to reset
Did you really bother posting that twice? It's not really adding to the discussion. please post a single entry on the forum about cars to reset
Take it as PC Support from Windows Help in Mumbai
Sway said:
At least four times so far - do we need a fifth in a couple of weeks?
Probably...and maybe even a sixth, seventh or eighth. Or you can do what I and countless others PHers do, and that is, after a while, just stop taking part in attrition loop style discussions with people like this. Over the years on PH I have taken part in a few spirited debates, and from time to time I have genuinely learned new stuff that has changed my point of view to some degree or another. Sadly, posters like ///ajd are not a big fan of facts or evidence or any form of positivity. They never actually learn anything, never think to themselves "hey, that was interesting, I have learned something there". All they do, as you correctly surmise is wait a few days and post the same inaccurate nonsense all over again.
jjlynn27 said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
What, that Ted voted out because he fought the Germans in a world war?
Time have changed and they are right to be concerned with their future. Ted hasn't a lengthy one left to worry about.
Even by his standards, rather bizarre post. Time have changed and they are right to be concerned with their future. Ted hasn't a lengthy one left to worry about.
The only bizarre thing is how you appear to be virtually permanent on here.
Every time I pop in ...you're here, you're there, and everywhere, at every hour (except anything to do about cars).
Perhaps time for another username change?
Def not to Scarlet Pimpernel though!
Have a Kit-Kat on us all.
Oh, but before you go... I am surprised no comment from you on Madame Lagarde thread?
Sway said:
Digga said:
jjlynn27 said:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration.
On the other points - a significant amount of non-EU applications are not controlled by us, but we're forced to accept them based upon ECJ (note, not ECHR) rulings.
Volumes - one is directly measured, one isn't. Not a valid comparison.
And so on.
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration
don'tbesilly said:
The Government has no information on how much EU migrants cost or benefit the UK, Lord O'Neill the treasury minister admitted as much back in February.
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration
Pick any set of numbers that you like.
don'tbesilly said:
The Government has no information on how much EU migrants cost or benefit the UK, Lord O'Neill the treasury minister admitted as much back in February.
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
Why is it flawed? Look at the statistics. Low unemployment, job vacancies remain high, and real wages are rising. All these suggest EU immigrantion have been very beneficial for the UK.The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration
Hosenbugler said:
vonuber said:
So if you disagree with something you should not voice your opinion?
If so, why do we bother having an opposition to the government then? Or any debates at all?
All this 'shut up, you're whining, you've lost get over it' just seems as an attempt to close down debate.
All very facist really.
So now those that voted to leave are fascists are they? You are just another bleater who's worried his snout is going to be pushed out the the trough. If so, why do we bother having an opposition to the government then? Or any debates at all?
All this 'shut up, you're whining, you've lost get over it' just seems as an attempt to close down debate.
All very facist really.
Pathetic individual.
If you voted Remain and you wish to discuss anything to do with the implications of brexit you are immediately labelled a whiner who needs to grow up, or in your case a 'Pathetic individual'.
I dare say you are now making assumptions about me and how I voted and what trough I am snuffling in.
I will tell you this I support the democratic process and we have a majority for brexit so we will leave the EU in a way that has yet to be defined. I cannot see how we can define what brexit means without considering the concerns and the wishes of ALL the electorate. Now I am not under the illusion that the definition of brexit will come from a topic on PH but where do you draw the line. I cannot see what is wrong with those who voted remain expressing their concerns about the future
What I also support is the freedom of speech and the rights of people to exercise it. Without freedom of speech there is no democracy and if there is no democracy then the referendum is just a pile of paper.
So what is it to be real democracy with freedom of speech or this special democracy where freedom to express oneself is suppressed and only the 'winners' have a right to speak.
As for the topic itself
Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result
Whatever happens with brexit there will be some who voted leave who will consider it a u turn. The reason I say this is that I saw no clear definition of what brexit means so how can I compare what happens with what I expected to happen. What I have discovered when I have discussed the vote and outcome that brexit means different things to different people so someone is not going to be happy unless they accept that compromise is the cornerstone of negotiation.
Anyway I await the usual suspects
jjlynn27 said:
don'tbesilly said:
The Government has no information on how much EU migrants cost or benefit the UK, Lord O'Neill the treasury minister admitted as much back in February.
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration
Pick any set of numbers that you like.
London424 said:
jjlynn27 said:
don'tbesilly said:
The Government has no information on how much EU migrants cost or benefit the UK, Lord O'Neill the treasury minister admitted as much back in February.
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
The chances are it also has no information on non EU immigration, so the statement:
- EU-immigration is more economically beneficial than non-EU immigration
Pick any set of numbers that you like.
Mrr T said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
No one is complaining about immigration, what people are concerned about is uncontrolled immigration.
As the UK is now officially the most densely populated country in the EU, having recently overtaken Holland for that dubious title. How do people think that adding the equivalent of a town the size of Swindon (from the EU alone) to the UK`s population level every year, is going to make it easier for those already here? How is it going to make it easier to get a school / university place, a job, a home, decent health care, transport etc, when each person already in the UK, must compete with an extra three hundred and thirty thousand people coming here every year looking for the exactly the same things?
No one can blame those coming here from the EU, and from the rest of the world for doing so, but one only has to look at the colossal size and population of E poolurope, and the rest of the world to realize that the UK simply cannot cope with the numbers of people who want to come here. Trying to put thousands into one, simply does not go.
Pleople from all over the world are drawn to the UK amongst other countries, in the same way that survivors from a sinking ship would be drawn to a lifeboat, which is fine until the lifeboat gets swamped by far more than it can reasonably cope with, and even that is when the weather is fair and calm (what happens when a storm comes up, is that it would make matters far worse) either way, the end result is that the lifeboat sinks under the weight of far too many people than it can reasonably cope with, so that instead of having the maximum reasonable number of survivors, ALL will drown.
I live 30 miles from London. So in one of the most densely populated parts of the UK but the town I live in is surrounded by open fields. So no we are not running out of room. As the UK is now officially the most densely populated country in the EU, having recently overtaken Holland for that dubious title. How do people think that adding the equivalent of a town the size of Swindon (from the EU alone) to the UK`s population level every year, is going to make it easier for those already here? How is it going to make it easier to get a school / university place, a job, a home, decent health care, transport etc, when each person already in the UK, must compete with an extra three hundred and thirty thousand people coming here every year looking for the exactly the same things?
No one can blame those coming here from the EU, and from the rest of the world for doing so, but one only has to look at the colossal size and population of E poolurope, and the rest of the world to realize that the UK simply cannot cope with the numbers of people who want to come here. Trying to put thousands into one, simply does not go.
Pleople from all over the world are drawn to the UK amongst other countries, in the same way that survivors from a sinking ship would be drawn to a lifeboat, which is fine until the lifeboat gets swamped by far more than it can reasonably cope with, and even that is when the weather is fair and calm (what happens when a storm comes up, is that it would make matters far worse) either way, the end result is that the lifeboat sinks under the weight of far too many people than it can reasonably cope with, so that instead of having the maximum reasonable number of survivors, ALL will drown.
As for EU immigrants I would suggest we would be drowning without them.
Why would we drown without immigrants? for every single immigrant who comes to work in the NHS, there are hundreds more who come to USE the NHS.
Put in extra hundreds of thousands of people onto the queues of those who want to take up UK health care, and it can be no surprise that it is under severe strain, and struggling to cope. It was set up as the National Health Service NOT the international Health Service. How can it be expected to cope with the colossal rise in demand caused by a never ever seen in the UK`s entire history rise in the UK`s population. Some strike me as being stupid enough to be surprised that after deliberately walking into a fire, they are shocked and surprised when they get burned by it.
schmunk said:
andymadmak said:
Do the red numbers confirm that migrants of all origins are costing the UK money? Genuine question
Suggest, not confirm, but otherwise yes.Migration watch general conclusions were:-
a. On Dustmann and Frattini’s own findings, there was no positive fiscal impact from migration in any year.
b. Migration to the UK since 2000 did not have a positive fiscal impact either.
c. The claim that recent EEA migrants contributed 34% more in revenues than they received in state expenditures is simply wrong. It relies on assumptions that employees earn the same as the UK-born population when their own figures show they do not, that self-employed
migrants contribute far more than those employed when they have no evidence of this whatsoever and – wholly unrealistically - that all of them own the same investments, property and other assets as the UK-born and long-term residents from the day they arrive in the UK.
d. Similarly the claim that recent EEA migrants are only half as likely to claim ’benefits or tax credits’ is highly misleading. In the context of establishing the fiscal cost what matters is the amount people receive, and different benefits pay different amounts to different people. Recent EEA migrants are much more likely to receive tax credits than the UK-born population,
and more likely to receive housing benefit, and these are likely to be paid at higher rates in view of their lower incomes
O
e. In fact, on less unreasonable assumptions, there was no positive fiscal impact at all from the recent EEA migrant group singled out by Dustmann and Frattini for their very positive contribution.
f. Migration to the UK continues to have a significant fiscal cost, and recent migrants in fact made no difference to the upward trend.
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