Petrol Prices

[HoHoHo]

unrepentant said:

Robbing bd gas station owners! Oil fell again yesterday but we were due 6in of snow last night so the price of gas went from 1.69 per gallon to $2.15 at every gas station in town.

Fortunately I filled up the Range Rover on Sunday and the gas price will be back down by the weekend.

Here's a face that doesn't give a st.....

[oyster]

Mr Whippy said:

Vaud said:

oyster said:

Well a pump price drop from £1.40 to £1.00 will lose the treasury more than 6p per litre.

They'll have to tax that back somewhere else.

(unless the improved economic growth from lower fuel costs feeds back into higher tax take to offset this).

I thought the tax was fixed.

The VAT goes down proportionally though.

I'm not sure economic growth goes up though does it. You either spend more on petrol == petrol industries happy. Or spend more on other stuff == those industries happy.

People can't physically spend more/less than they were before.

Well, apart from that 6p tax, but like has been said that'll likely go out the wallet some other way in the coming months if the oil price stays low.


Dave

Spend on the 'other stuff' you refer to is proportionately more likely to be kept within the UK than money spent on petrol, hence why the UK is a net beneficiary of lower oil prices.

[Mr Whippy]

oyster said:

Mr Whippy said:

Vaud said:

oyster said:

Well a pump price drop from £1.40 to £1.00 will lose the treasury more than 6p per litre.

They'll have to tax that back somewhere else.

(unless the improved economic growth from lower fuel costs feeds back into higher tax take to offset this).

I thought the tax was fixed.

The VAT goes down proportionally though.

I'm not sure economic growth goes up though does it. You either spend more on petrol == petrol industries happy. Or spend more on other stuff == those industries happy.

People can't physically spend more/less than they were before.

Well, apart from that 6p tax, but like has been said that'll likely go out the wallet some other way in the coming months if the oil price stays low.


Dave

Spend on the 'other stuff' you refer to is proportionately more likely to be kept within the UK than money spent on petrol, hence why the UK is a net beneficiary of lower oil prices.

Good point.

I wonder what proportions are realistic though. Is it more like 50% of savings, as I expect lots goes to places like China that make stuff, then Amazon who distribute it to people, as much as it goes to local shops etc.

Dave

[Vipers]

On the 1000 news just now, saying Brent has dropped, looking at <£1 soon.

[ralphrj]

Some people have short memories (with the exception of mjb1!).

The Government introduced a fair fuel stabiliser in the 2012 budget.

If the average price per barrel of oil is high then the government levies additional tax on the profits oil and gas companies and uses this to offset cuts or freezes in fuel duty.

However, this also works in reverse so if the price per barrel of oil is low then the taxes on oil and gas companies are cut and fuel duty is increased.

For this to happen a trigger price has to be met. This will be assessed on the first working day in February and is based on 2 figures:

1. The average daily dollar oil price (per barrel) in the three months immediately prior to the date of assessment, converted to sterling using the average daily Bank of England exchange rate across the period.

2. The average daily dollar oil price (per barrel) in the week before the date of assessment, converted to sterling using the average daily Bank of England exchange rate across the period.

When it was introduced the trigger price was £45 per barrel but may have been revised by the OBR since then. At the time of writing the oil price is £34 per barrel.

So I would expect fuel duty to rise automatically in the budget unless the Chancellor delays any rise until after the election.

Edited by ralphrj on Wednesday 7th January 11:38

[Mr Whippy]

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

[simoid]

Mr Whippy said:

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

January 2009? You sure?

[Welshbeef]

simoid said:

Mr Whippy said:

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

January 2009? You sure?

More like back in 2002 I recall filling up at £0.77/ltr and the £0.90 was a big threshold then suddenly we smashed through £1 etc.

[V88Dicky]

Welshbeef said:

simoid said:

Mr Whippy said:

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

January 2009? You sure?

More like back in 2002 I recall filling up at £0.77/ltr and the £0.90 was a big threshold then suddenly we smashed through £1 etc.

I remember petrol prices coming down to 82.9ppl in Christmas 2008, after it had hit highs that summer of 120 odd per litre.

[unrepentant]

ralphrj said:

Some people have short memories (with the exception of mjb1!).

The Government introduced a fair fuel stabiliser in the 2012 budget.

If the average price per barrel of oil is high then the government levies additional tax on the profits oil and gas companies and uses this to offset cuts or freezes in fuel duty.

However, this also works in reverse so if the price per barrel of oil is low then the taxes on oil and gas companies are cut and fuel duty is increased.

For this to happen a trigger price has to be met. This will be assessed on the first working day in February and is based on 2 figures:

1. The average daily dollar oil price (per barrel) in the three months immediately prior to the date of assessment, converted to sterling using the average daily Bank of England exchange rate across the period.

2. The average daily dollar oil price (per barrel) in the week before the date of assessment, converted to sterling using the average daily Bank of England exchange rate across the period.

When it was introduced the trigger price was £45 per barrel but may have been revised by the OBR since then. At the time of writing the oil price is £34 per barrel.

So I would expect fuel duty to rise automatically in the budget unless the Chancellor delays any rise until after the election.

So you guys take it in the ass either way.

There are some states here considering putting a fuel duty rise on the ballot next year. 'mericans won't stand for it in most places though. Environmentalists are getting twitchy because cheap gas = more huge V8's on the road. On the flip side though the frackers can't get the stuff out of the ground for $50 a barrel so it might put paid to them which would please the greens.

[Mr Whippy]

V88Dicky said:

Welshbeef said:

simoid said:

Mr Whippy said:

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

January 2009? You sure?

More like back in 2002 I recall filling up at £0.77/ltr and the £0.90 was a big threshold then suddenly we smashed through £1 etc.

I remember petrol prices coming down to 82.9ppl in Christmas 2008, after it had hit highs that summer of 120 odd per litre.

Indeed, it did creep up for years, to about £1.20 petrol, £1.30 diesel.

Then in the 2008 slump it dropped hard, especially for petrol. Diesel stayed quite high iirc.

It didn't last that long though, but that is where it was at for a while into that summer in 2009!

Dave

[Vipers]

simoid said:

Mr Whippy said:

In Jan 09 I remember I filled my then just purchased Z4 with 97 petrol at Esso for 89p/litre.

Apparently oil was about the same price then as it is now.

So give or take some for tax, I can see 95 petrol being around 90p if the prices stabilise and remain steady at a low point.


I think I'm gonna get heating oil ordered today, I just wish right now that I had a 3000l tank so I could get a load of it bought!

Dave

January 2009? You sure?

Just checked my exel spreadsheet, which I keep every time I fill up, sad I know, but in Jan 2009 I was paying 82.2p a litre for petrol.

Not sure what this 97 stuff is, this is the price for regular petrol.

[turbobloke]

ralphrj said:

Some people have short memories...

I can remember when petrol was 50p/gallon, unfortunately

ralphrj said:

The Government introduced a fair fuel stabiliser in the 2012 budget.

Petrol had gone from 87p/litre in 2009 to 135p in 2012, and as you may recall with your equally good memory there were many headlines about not only the price but the percentage of tax in the price, and the point about stabilisation in terms of raising duty at times when oil prices were falling didn't get the same attention as reductions in duty. We'll find out soon enough what the 'fair' in fair fuel stabiliser actually means to HMG in practice as opposed to theory.

[turbobloke]

Vipers said:

Just checked my exel spreadsheet, which I keep every time I fill up, sad I know, but in Jan 2009 I was paying 82.2p a litre for petrol.

Around late Spring or early Summer probably, the price had reached 108p/litre by the end of the year in many places and went on rising to about 142p/litre just about three years later

[Mr Whippy]

Hehe, nice work on the spreadsheet

82.9p that is very cheap.

90p as a price for it to settle today for regular 95 doesn't seem far out then given tax changes and the price not being THAT low yet.

I'll have to go drive the car a bit later in the week to use up the old expensive petrol in the tank and buy some cheap petrol!

Dave

[Vipers]

Mr Whippy said:

Hehe, nice work on the spreadsheet

82.9p that is very cheap.

90p as a price for it to settle today for regular 95 doesn't seem far out then given tax changes and the price not being THAT low yet.

I'll have to go drive the car a bit later in the week to use up the old expensive petrol in the tank and buy some cheap petrol!

Dave

Started it in sept 04, when I bought the Volvo, fill it in every time I fill up, cost, litres, pence per litre, pounds per gallon and MPG, and location of fill.

To date I have driven 90,659 miles and spent £18173.61 on petrol, and averaged 25 mpg, depressing really (think I did the sums right).

[simoid]

I've got an app for that these days

That's totally flown my memory, I had it in my head that the £l barrier was smashed in about 2006 never to be seen again

[Vipers]

simoid said:

I've got an app for that these days

That's totally flown my memory, I had it in my head that the £l barrier was smashed in about 2006 never to be seen again

From Sep 04 to 3 Jan 08, my spreadsheet never shows more than 99.9 pence per litre.

When I filled up on the 12th Jan 2008, I logged 101.9 per litre.

During 2006 my spreadsheet shows in the 80's and 90's.

I knew the spreadsheet would come in handy one day.

This is for regular petrol by the way, not the super dooper stuff.

Edited by Vipers on Wednesday 7th January 17:44

[HoHoHo]

£106.9 in the garage by Excel this morning

[Vipers]

[redacted]