British Airways 777 fire at Las Vegas airport

[Willy Nilly]

Blaster72 said:

Willy Nilly said:

Vipers said:

Not a valid point if everyone did it, resulting in some not being able to evacuate in a timely manner, not a valid point at all, just idiotic. If your in the bar of the hotel and the fire alarm sounds, are you going back to your room for you passport, dont think so.

Then again in all walks of life there are always some selfish barsteward, just so many in one place this time.

So what happens to you if you are on a plane that catches fire and you do the right thing and leave everything on the plane but all of your documents subsequently get destroyed?

does the airline help you out? Does immigration realise you have had all of you documentation burnt on a plane through no fault of your own? Or is it tough luck? If the latter, that is why people grab their stuff, because that could quite easily loose their passport, travel insurance details, house keys, phone, money and be totally stuffed. Yes, they should get off the plane as quick as possible, but you can understand why they would want their belongings.

No,no,no. This is just the attitude that leaves people behind you dead.

Oh, I must take my bag because my priceless macbook might get burnt to a crisp. fk the people behind me for whom seconds not minutes count before the might be overwhelmed by smoke and burn to death.

You can't fight human nature but some people are so spectacularly selfish it beggars belief.

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

[Blaster72]

Willy Nilly said:

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

Not really sure that matters as we're discussing whether you should cause someone elses death by taking valuable time to get your belongings.

Easy solution though is to keep passport and wallet in your pocket.

Not convinced - read this

http://flightsafety.org/ccs/ccs_may-june04.pdf

[Puggit]

Willy Nilly said:

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

The local embassy/consulate would send someone out for that large a party who have suffered an obvious and accounted for incident. They would provide emergency documents to get home.

[Willy Nilly]

Puggit said:

Willy Nilly said:

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

The local embassy/consulate would send someone out for that large a party who have suffered an obvious and accounted for incident. They would provide emergency documents to get home.

Thank you, so no actual need to get you belongings then?

[Vipers]

Willy Nilly said:

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

Havnt got a clue sunshine, ask BA they might know.

[Willy Nilly]

Vipers said:

Willy Nilly said:

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

Havnt got a clue sunshine, ask BA they might know.

If people actually knew that they will be able to make their onward journey without any paperwork related agro they would have no issue in walking calmly to the doors without going for their stuff.

[Vipers]

Blaster72 said:

Not really sure that matters as we're discussing whether you should cause someone elses death by taking valuable time to get your belongings.

Easy solution though is to keep passport and wallet in your pocket.

Not convinced - read this

http://flightsafety.org/ccs/ccs_may-june04.pdf

Says it all, not that some of us didn't already know that, but I am afraid it won't convince some members here, sadly.

[bitchstewie]

Willy Nilly said:

Thank you, so no actual need to get you belongings then?

Being caught on a jet plane that is undergoing an emergency evacuation for whatever reason, let alone fire, is presumably a "once in a lifetime" event for most people.

I might behave like a sheep and do something daft, but I'd like to think that if I had any kind of rational thought left in me I'd choose a couple of days inconvenience whilst the British Consulate sorted things out vs. asphyxiation or firey death.

[Blaster72]

I can quite understand some people reaching under their seat and taking a handbag or manbag with them without really thinking but what I can't understand is the description from other passengers that some opened overhead lockers and took their full size cabin bags despite cabin crew shouting at them not to and to leave everything behind.

I guess some people are just wired up different but I pray if I'm ever in this kind of incident that these idiots are seated further away from the exit than me.

[stripy7]

From the pictures it looks as though some managed to find time to get into the luggage compartment and get their suitcases.

[Vipers]

Willy Nilly said:

If people actually knew that they will be able to make their onward journey without any paperwork related agro they would have no issue in walking calmly to the doors without going for their stuff.

I think you need help.

[Willy Nilly]

Vipers said:

Willy Nilly said:

If people actually knew that they will be able to make their onward journey without any paperwork related agro they would have no issue in walking calmly to the doors without going for their stuff.

I think you need help.

While working in the US, the house I was lodging in burnt to the ground and collapsed into my basement bedroom. I had the clothes I stood up in. You cannot imagine the ball ache, so I can understand, even if it seems stupid, why people go for their bags when they should be escaping.

[paranoid airbag]

Willy Nilly said:

So what happens to you if you are on a plane that catches fire and you do the right thing and leave everything on the plane but all of your documents subsequently get destroyed?

does the airline help you out? Does immigration realise you have had all of you documentation burnt on a plane through no fault of your own? Or is it tough luck? If the latter, that is why people grab their stuff, because that could quite easily loose their passport, travel insurance details, house keys, phone, money and be totally stuffed. Yes, they should get off the plane as quick as possible, but you can understand why they would want their belongings.

You do the sensible thing, and already have your passport, phone and wallet on you?

I know that's not the point you're making, but stuff I'm willing to endanger someone for is also something I'm willing to endure a little inconvenience for too. So they stay on my person any time that's possible during a flight. Who says you're even going to get the choice to be a dangerous dickweed when the time comes? You could be in the bathroom. The person next to you might not take kindly to your attempt and be sufficiently built to do something about it. The lockers might already be on fire...

Fair enough, if you wish to think that paranoid I have no urge to tell you otherwise. But given the option exists, it is fair to say that you leaving your valuables elsewhere would be your choice and therefore your responsibility.

[iphonedyou]

Willy Nilly said:

If people actually knew that they will be able to make their onward journey without any paperwork related agro they would have no issue in walking calmly to the doors without going for their stuff.

Common sense dictates you won't become stateless because your passport went up in flames along with 180 others due to a plane crash.

I think most people understand this.

[98elise]

Willy Nilly said:

Blaster72 said:

Willy Nilly said:

Vipers said:

Not a valid point if everyone did it, resulting in some not being able to evacuate in a timely manner, not a valid point at all, just idiotic. If your in the bar of the hotel and the fire alarm sounds, are you going back to your room for you passport, dont think so.

Then again in all walks of life there are always some selfish barsteward, just so many in one place this time.

So what happens to you if you are on a plane that catches fire and you do the right thing and leave everything on the plane but all of your documents subsequently get destroyed?

does the airline help you out? Does immigration realise you have had all of you documentation burnt on a plane through no fault of your own? Or is it tough luck? If the latter, that is why people grab their stuff, because that could quite easily loose their passport, travel insurance details, house keys, phone, money and be totally stuffed. Yes, they should get off the plane as quick as possible, but you can understand why they would want their belongings.

No,no,no. This is just the attitude that leaves people behind you dead.

Oh, I must take my bag because my priceless macbook might get burnt to a crisp. fk the people behind me for whom seconds not minutes count before the might be overwhelmed by smoke and burn to death.

You can't fight human nature but some people are so spectacularly selfish it beggars belief.

so, for the umpteenth time, how do they deal with the passengers that have had their documents destroyed?

Your embassy sorts out it out for you. People lose passports abroad every day, its not a big issue. Certainly nothing worth risking your or other peoples lives over.

[mp3manager]

stripy7 said:

Same thing happened at Manchester Airport disaster 30 years ago- the survivors climbed over seats to get out, a lot of the victims were queuing as though in a trance.

That's a crock o' crap.

As my dad was killed in that disaster and as I've got the official report, no where does it mention the people who died were 'queuing as though in a trance'.

Those who were killed, died as a result of several factors. Cyanide poisoning and other toxic fumes from the burning seat-foam, emergency exits blocked by seats fitted by money-grabbing air-lines and emergency exit doors which were faulty.

[Starfighter]

It would have been funny if the local airport authorities had impounded ALL of the bags removed from the plane as part of the investigation. Bags have been material to the cause of a crash in the past, admittedly in this case it would appear not.

[Chuck328]

mp3manager said:

That's a crock o' crap.

As my dad was killed in that disaster and as I've got the official report, no where does it mention the people who died were 'queuing as though in a trance'.

Those who were killed, died as a result of several factors. Cyanide poisoning and other toxic fumes from the burning seat-foam, emergency exits blocked by seats fitted by money-grabbing air-lines and emergency exit doors which were faulty.

Powerful statement, rightly so.

Curious, do you feel the industry has done enough/improved since?

For what it's worth, any of you who think "fk st flames!, I'm out of here". Please don't. Let the Captain make that judgement as to if and when , remembering that the crew talk to ATC and can get immediate assessment from the tower's external view. Even if it's "Tower just tell me what you see". The crew can open the cockpit window (on most types of large aircraft) and get a direct visual as to what's going on. There are multiple sources of info.

This event was severe and the decision to get out was spot on but the crew need a minute or two to make that decision. Also remember, those donkeys have fire extinguishers (2 on each donk) built in. If they have done their job and the fire is out (you might still see smoke) then after another assessment, it might be wiser to taxi in on the remaining engine that has been turning all this time (you want to jump out into that??) for steps rather then risk injury going down slides.

[mp3manager]

Chuck328 said:

Powerful statement, rightly so.

Curious, do you feel the industry has done enough/improved since?

Yes I do, such as non-toxic seat-foam and other cabin materials, floor level lighting but other suggestions that the pressure group, SCI-SAFE, put forward such as smoke-hoods were not implemented.

Chuck328 said:

For what it's worth, any of you who think "fk st flames!, I'm out of here". Please don't. Let the Captain make that judgement as to if and when , remembering that the crew talk to ATC and can get immediate assessment from the tower's external view. Even if it's "Tower just tell me what you see". The crew can open the cockpit window (on most types of large aircraft) and get a direct visual as to what's going on. There are multiple sources of info.

That's interesting as according to the report, the cabin crew lost control of the passengers after they were instructed to 'sit down and remain strapped in'. Some obeyed, some didn't. In a nutshell, the people who ignored the cabin crew and acted on instinct, survived.

Edited by mp3manager on Saturday 12th September 01:30

[Crush]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Sorry, could you provide a link to a case where a passengers bag has caused the crash of a commercial airliner?

(Hiding a bomb in a bag doesnt count).

I heard that nail clippers and hand cream could be fatal to an aircraft